Jump to content

Talk:Hip hop music/Archive 1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3→Archive 5

Untitled

hi i need help i cant breakdance as i dont know how to do it i want tol earn at home is there anyone that can give me a good website or give me good instructions to do a cool move a video willhaelp

First you could check outBreakdancing.Hyacinth09:10, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Rap and Hip Hop are not synonyms.

IfRap Musicis a synomyn for Hip Hop Music, then why is "One Mic"both a rap and Hip Hop song, whilst"Peaches and Cream"is only a Hip Hop Song, but not a rap song? I know the answer. The point is that Rap Music is a genre independent from Hip Hop. You can easily record a rap song without recording a Hip Hop song_ don't ya' think!!! ~Jack D. 4:14 UTC 8/1/04

"rap music" is extremely popular as a synonym for hip hop music, though. The encyclopedia should both acknowledge that people use it in that way as well as pointing out that it isnt technically a synonym. --Jamieli11:44, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
"One Mic" byNasis a hip-hop song, and therefore a rap song. "Peaches and Cream" (by112,right?) is anR&Bsong,and is in no shape or form (or stretch of the imagination) a hip-hop song (I'm learning that not a lot of Wikipedians realize R&B evenexists). The two (rap music and hip-hop music)areindeed synonyms. --FuriousFreddy02:41, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Queen's 1979 single "Another One Bites The Dust"has been classified as hip-hop by various critics. As such, the song may represent some of the first influences of the genre onmainstream musicoutside ofNorth America." Where can this fit in anyone?

Oh, please! Don't insult Queen like that! That was arealband, you know, one that plays actualmusic(which hip-hop is not), and Freddie Mercury actuallysangin that song (which hip-hop "singers" do not).
You're right, there are clear differences. Freddie Mercury sing-raps the very simple lyrics with a consistent cadence and very simple melody, whereas most real rap lyrics feature elaborate shifts of cadence, more elaborate phrasing and more complex handling of rhythm.
Of course, the song is very obviously hip hop-influenced, especially considering the resemblance it bears to certain rap singles that came before it (like Kurtis Blow's "The Breaks" ). John Deacon also helped produce Wyclef Jean's full-on hip hop remake of the song. So Queen certainly don't consider themselves to be above the work of "hip hop singers" (because, of course, rapping is trying to sing but failing horribly, just like playing the oboe is trying to play the cello but failing horribly), even if some of their more narrow-minded fans certainly seem to. --Jamieli21:36, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
Good thing you admit rapping is not singing. So why are they called "rap singers"? It'd be fine to call them "rap vocalists", because there is voice, even though there is no singing - and no music, other than whatever they steal (euphemism: "sample" ) from actual musicians' works.
"So why are they called" rap singers "?"
How am I supposed to know? You were the one who called them it.
No, it's just a widely (mis)used expression.
Widely misused by who? They don't say that in my hood.
"It'd be fine to call them" rap vocalists ", because there is voice, even though there is no singing"
Wow, amazing! It must have taken years of intensively training your ear for you to become so incredibly musically astute to work out that singing contains melodies and rapping doesn't! Incredible! How I envy your ability!
No, silly, I'm merely implying that rapping isinferiorto singing.
In what sense?
In theyou have bad taste in musicsense, maybe?
Huh? Are we going to have an actual discussion here or are you just going to post infantile "funny" links? Answer the question - in what sense is rapping is inferior to singing?
Please! It's self-evident! Singing is better than talking for a songbecauseit is singing!;-)
Why? They are different styles of vocals for different purposes.
But the lack of melody is just half the problem.
It's not intended to have melody, just like talking blues vocals and beat poetry aren't intended to have melody. Just like drums aren't intended to have melody. Rap is rhythmic recitative, not non-melodic singing.
Other than the form, the content - now I refer to gangsta and its ilk
We're not talking about the content, however, are we? We're talking about the medium. So this is utterly irrelevant. And "gangsta and its ilk" is merely a subgenre of hip hop which came about long after Another One Bites The Dust was being influenced by hip hop of the time and getting airplay on black radio stations.
Lyrics written inbad english
Yeah, everyone knows how enjoyable a piece of vocal music is is heavily reliant on how close the artist's method of speech is to Standard English. Hell, I bet blues artists' startling inability to talk like the Queen of England was what doomed blues music to failure!
and filled with curses,
Oh, heavens no!
that talk mostly of guns, pimps, bitches, Cadillacs, and assorted bling-blings. They carry a more harmful view about black people than any KKK leaflet. Such "artists" display themselves as inherently unethical, potentially criminal, isolated from reality, and proud of it - what a nice example for the kids!
Aside from the fact that this is irrelevant to what we're discussing, which is the medium of hip hop not the lyrical content of a minority of its artists, what does being a "nice example for the kids" have to do with anything? I suppose you don't like Led Zeppelin either because they glorify masturbating with dead sharks.
(sure, in a way, Another One Bites The Dust has a small similarity - its lyrics are kinda violent. But they do not praise crime, but instead they expose its dark, bloody side.)
Exposing the dark, bloody side of crime is of course unheard of in hip hop music.
"and no music, other than whatever they steal (euphemism:" sample ") from actual musicians' works."
Just like those lousy jazzmen, always stealing from those poor Gershwins. Damn them all to hell! --Jamieli09:49, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Did the jazzmen use electronic devices for that?
No, why? Do you have something against electronics? Are you Amish?
Nothing against synthesizers, and even occasional samples here and there don't hurt. But making whole songs by putting spoken words over snips from real artists' music is like copying bits of renaissance paintings, pasting them together, and saying you painted it. No, damnit, it's just a collage, bits ofsomeone else'sworks.
Like that worthless piece of crap "The Waste Land"by that hackT.S. Eliot.Yeah. Boy, does that poem ever suck.
Maybe. Some people detest it. I will check it out when I have the time.
Be sure to run your upcoming thesis past some literary scholars and see what they think.
And explain to me how the jazz reliance on standards and shared chord progressions, the use of which is far more restrictive over what the eventual piece of music sounds like than the use of a small totally uncontextualized snippet of drums or sax, is somehow acceptable but hip hop sampling isn't? Explain to me how folk/blues tradition, which involves basically passing down the same exact song and writing new lyrics to the melody, is acceptable but hip hop sampling isn't? And please explain to me how some inspirationally bereft and barely competent piano player taking fifteen minutes to learn some really simple overused jazz standard like "Girl From Ipanema" and running through it without a hint of anything original and sounding like a million other people a million times before is artistically superior to Public Enemy taking 40+ tracks of samples from a myriad of disparate sources that stretch right across musical history and meticulously assembling and recontextualizing them together to create a final piece which sounds like absolutely nothing else ever created in the history of music. If you remove the irrational stigma attached to using someone else's recording rather than using someone else's chord changes and melody, you'll see your argument has little basis in anything artistic.
What a flawed comparison. Try taking any skilled composer creating something new for the piano or any other instrument. Now compare that to someone who just does a music collage. Maybe there's art in collage, but the best collage is nothing compared to a good original work.
A good collage work is good. A good "original" work is good. A bad collage work is bad. A bad "original" work is bad. Explain to me how the knowledge of whether or not a final piece is composed using excerpts from other recordings rather than composed using notes played on an instrument is going to affect how a piece of art is enjoyable or stimulating.
And as your reply unsurprisingly didn't address my point, explain to me what this mystery factor is that seems to make the jazz reliance on standards, borrowed chord changes and borrowed licks good or make the folk/blues reliance on borrowed everything good, and the hip hop reliance on samples bad.
(by the way, a large proportion of hip hop artists, and probably the majority of artists nowadays, use original sample-free composition anyway)


-- Aye,Another One Bites The Dustalso sounds like an old school hip hop bass to me. Guess you (we/someone) should find more data about the song and start an stub about it. And mentionwhich critics. Besides, we might include it in a section of thaHip hop musicpage on influences of hip hop on pop, r&b, ragga, rock, nu metal and other music fussions.--Erri4a18:19, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

See:Chic's "Good Times": "In addition to defining the disco sound, Chic helped to inspire other artists to forge their own sound. For example, The Sugarhill Gang used" Good Times "as the basis for their hit Rapper's Delight, which helped launch the Rap/Hip-hop music format as we know today. And the group Queen got the inspiration for their hit single Another One Bites The Dust from Chic's familiar bass guitar riffs."
From "Another One Bites the Dust":"It was inspired by Chic's (Bernard Edwards & Nile Rodgers) 'Good Times'. "
Lastly seeDJ Grandmaster Flash's "Wheels of Steel", where Chic, TheSugarhill Gang,Queen, andBlondiemeet.Hyacinth19:26, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hiphopgenrebox

Why shouldn't{{hiphop}}be included in the article? The article is about part of hip hop after all.Tim Ivorson09:55, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't understand your question.Template:Hiphopgenreboxis in this article.Tuf-Kat14:36, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)
Sorry. I wasn't paying attention when I wrote that. I meant the{{hiphop}}box.Tim Ivorson17:07, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Oh, a couple reasons. First, a lot of people don't like footers -- I'm not one, but many people remove most footers on general principle, I think. Most importantly, the footer is supposed to duplicate the links in the genrebox that's on this page. The whole genrebox would be too big for the sub-articles, but the footer is more tidy. In this case, the links in the footer to country articles (e.g.French hip hop) were removed and made into a separate footer because keeping it all in one footer made it too large. The simple answer to your question is: the links in the footer are in the genrebox instead.Tuf-Kat20:27, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)
Okay. Now I think about it, the hiphop box seems obviously unnecessary here.Tim Ivorson20:59, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thrash metal + hip hop

Tuf-Kat, one of your recent edits added, "...thrash metaland hip hop (calledhardcore). "I'm not sure that this is accurate. The linked article makes no mention of metal.Tim Ivorson23:24, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hmm, you are correct. I don't have time to do much searching, but googling isn't helpful either. I think the issue is that "hardcore" refers to several different ideas. One, and the one which seems to have the most google hits, is anything "hard" as opposed to the soft pop and happy thug scenes (i.e. GZA, Tupac). Specifically, "hardcore" seems to apply only to East Coast rappers, and may be synonymous withmafioso rap(i.e.Kool G Rap,AZ). The sense which I am most familiar with is the mostly West Coast hard metal/hip hop scene from the mid-80s. Closer googling reveals that it is also used as an apparent synonym forhorrorcore,so it's a complicated issue. I'll reword the article for now, and hopefully somebody will clarifyhardcore hip hop.Tuf-Kat23:39, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)
Oddly enough, I wrotehardcore hip hop,and used the edit comment(i'm not sure this term really means anything at all).I think at the time, I was disambiguatinghardcoreand just wanted to put something down so there was an article there...Tuf-Kat23:41, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)

Failed FAC nomination

This is mostly a self-nom.Tuf-Kat23:32, Oct 16, 2004 (UTC)

  • Object. Comprehensive referencing and continuous prose is required in the "Further spread to the US and abroad" heading. Certainly well on the way however. -Aaron Hill03:07, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)
  • Object. Lead intro is too long and should have some of the info incorporated into the main story. Haven't read the rest I'm afraid, so can't comment any further. -Ta bu shi da yu03:33, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • Lead is shortened. No info was lost, I believe.Tuf-Kat04:42, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)
  • Support.Agree with Aaronhill, It's great up until the "Further spread to the US and abroad" section were the article degenerates into a list. The references section probably needs expanding as well, unless this article truly did only use two sites for information:)Zerbey18:31, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I don't entirely agree that the bullet points in "further spread" were bad, but I have changed the section into a paragraph form, and in doing so, tweaked the whole "diversification" section in the 1980s. Is this more satisfactory? I used a number of references, but don't have them handy and won't soon, so I will see if I can track down some ISBNs and such on google.Tuf-Kat22:39, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)
    • Some more refs have been added. AFAIK, all concerns have been address, so please re-object if needed.Tuf-Kat23:30, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)
  • Support. I think the section on spread abroadcoulduse some work, but since its such a broad subject, it doesn't actually detract from the article by moving quickly from point to point.—siroχo00:14, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
  • Object. Far from complete. The article stops at the early 1990s and, as others have indicated, the "international spread" part is horrible. In addition, the article should be written from an international standpoint. Hip-hop certainly originates in the US, but it is more international now. A list of non-existing articles on "national scenes" is also quite useless.Jeronimo07:02, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I would like to point out thatheavy metal musicnever leaves the US and UK,punk rockdoes so only in a brief reference to Poland andjazzhas a paragraph on Latin jazz and a few references to European jazzmen. All three are featured in spite of not being remotely internationalized.Tuf-Kat10:30, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
      • Two things: 1) The fact that other articles "got away with it" doesn't mean all other articles can. 2) I think (but I'm not sure) that the articles you mention are from the "Brilliant prose" period, and have never been reviewed like the current featured articles. Perhaps this is a reason to re-examine them?Jeronimo11:28, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • Perhaps, but my point was that the reason the poor quality of that section got attention is because it existed. It is far more comprehensive and fair-minded than any other source on the Internet, especially in its international coverage.Tuf-Kat21:59, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

Vandalism

This article has become a constant victim of vandalism lately.Tuf-Kat04:36, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

Do you think it should be protected?Tim Ivorson08:54, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
No, it seems to be reverted pretty promptly, so I think it's okay unprotected.Tuf-Kat13:42, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

Definition

"Hip hop music is a popular style of music. It is composed of two parts: rapping (emceeing) and DJing; along with breakdancing and graffiti art, these are the four components of hip hop, a cultural movement which began among African Americans in New York City in the 1970s. The term rap is sometimes used synonymously with hip hop music, though it is also used to refer specifically to the practice of rapping, which is just one component of hip hop music"

Hip hop as a cultural movement is not defined.There's a pretty correct and useful definition for Hip hop culture:

"Hiphop is defined as the mode of consciousness, interaction and understanding that flows forth from it's four most developed and basic elements: 

Emceeing, B-Boying,Graffiti Art, and Djying. "<--- wwww.hiphopcongress.com

Therefore the article should start like this:

Hip hop or [rap] music is a popular style of music belonging to the cultural movement called Hiphop which is usually defined as the mode of consciousness, interaction and understanding thatflows forth from it's four most developed and basic elements: 

Emceeing,Djing,Graffiti Art an B-Boying (Breakdancing)

IMO this would create a better more general approach.

I strongly disagree. I don't think hip hop is "usually" defined that way, and I'm not even sure what it means. In what way is hip hop a mode of consciousness, interaction or understanding? In any case, a deeper explanation of varying definitions of hip hop, attributed to those who hold them, would be better placed athip hoprather than here.Tuf-Kat00:52, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)

This definition has the huge advantage that it considers every single aspect of HipHop and approves a wide range of styles and diifrent approaches.the propossed version has a few advantages:It actually allows you to put Gangsta Rap,and Conscious/Afrocentric hip hop in one and the same definition without any further specifying in the initial definition.

Consciousness:When people claim they "are hip hop" or do "hip hop" how else can you approve or deny it if not by the the things that actually form the culture? Interaction:Refers to battles or putting different elements together,for instance emceeing and deejaying which is the most common combination. understanding:is maybe less clear.it pays hommage to "knowledge" which is often referred to as the 5th element of HipHop.this is a typical Zulu Nation Approach though so you might contest it.

i do agree that the global definition would be better place inhip hp

I don't understand what you are trying to say at all. Why don't you propose specifically what you want to change atTalk:Hip hopand I and anybody else who is interested can comment on it there.Tuf-Kat21:42, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)

I'm not totally comfortable with the definition given here; how do we know where "hip hop" began? (No evidence is given in this article for the claim that it began in NYC, partly because the definition of hip hop you give here is almost circular -- "a cultural movement which began among African Americans in New York City in the 1970s" -- but -- whatisit?). Note that DJing and rapping had been going on before the 70's in Jamaica. Furthermore, it is my understanding that not all of the founding fathers of Hip Hop in New York were African American. Finally, trying to define hip hop only in terms of its "four components" seems to be way too limiting. Tue Jan 25 11:26:42 2005

minor changes

I am working on small, but significant copyedits and corrections in the article (e.g.)Kurtis Blowbeing the first accused ofselling out,notLL Cool J,removing theD'Angelosample as this is ahip-hoparticle, not asoulornu soularticle, etc.). There is also a bit of subtle POV in places, which has been taken care of.

Also, the sample list needs to be ordered in ascending chronological order, from oldest to new, not the reverse. If I get enough time, I will add a sample from "Rapper's Delight"(which I am suprised to find is not here).

--b. Touch16:58, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It's a great edit! Regarding the sound samples, "Rapper's Delight" isn't there because I don't have a copy, and I'm responsible for all the samples. I disagree with removing D'Angelo because part of understandinghip hop musicis understanding how hip hop has had an effect on other styles, like soul. Also, nu soul (especially D'Angelo) is as much hip hop as it is soul (or nearly so, anyway). Any other opinions?Tuf-Kat03:02, Jan 18, 2005 (UTC)
It might be better to move the list to asamples of hip hoppage, where length and the number of samples will not be as much of an issue.Tuf-Kat03:04, Jan 18, 2005 (UTC)
Isn't there already one though? And, as far as showing the influence of hip-hop onsoul music,wouldn't it be beter to put a hip-hop soul record (any earlyMary J. Bligesingle immediately comes to mind), rather than D'Angelo's "Untitled", which has next to no hip-hop influence present in it? --b. Touch05:24, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Bob Dylan

I removed this:

AlthoughBob Dylaninvented rapping with his 'Subterranean Homesick Blues',

You could say it's similar to what later became known as "rapping", or, more accurately, MCing inhip hop,but this song is no more of an influence than any other monotonically-phrased song pre-1970.For example, theWarner Bros.cartoon shortCoal Black and de Sebben Dwarfsfrom1942is FILLED with what one might term "rapping", but hip-hop's influences are fromWest Africa,theWest Indies(specificallyJamaica), and artists likeJames BrownandGil Scott-Heron.

--b. Touch02:19, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hip Hop and Rap?

I feel the need to point out that although the genres are often mixed, rapping is not an essential part of Hip-Hop. "Yeah!" by Usher definetely mixes dance beats with Ludacris rapping, and it can be called Hip-Hop/Rap. Most of the time Eminem and Jay-Z types are rapping without really a beat to dance to, but a song like "Hey Ya!" by OutKast really has no rapping in it.

This is not correct. "Hip-hop" and "rap" refer to the same exact genre of music. "Hip-hop" was the name given to the music, "rap" is what it was called when it became commercialized. The generaly accepted usage of the two terms in the present day essentially labels most commercialized hip-hop (anything byLudacris,Ja Rule,etc.) as "rap" and artists who come closer to embodying the elements and spirit of hip-hop (OutKast,Common Sense,The Roots,etc.), as "hip-hop".Usher's "Yeah!" is anR&Bsong with strong hip-hop influences and a rapped verse from Ludacris. Even with hip-hop inspired elements, it is still an R&B song; Usher sings, not raps, the verses and the hook. And "danceable" beats are hardly a prerequisite of hip-hop. Many hip-hop rhythm tracks are made simply to suit the mood of the song and not for dancing purposes. For these songs, the "head nod" factor is more important than dancibility. Oh, and "Hey Ya!" isn't a hip-hop song; it's pop.Andre 3000'sThe Love Below(the album from which "Hey Ya!" comes) is not a hip-hop album; it's basically a progressive funk album. --FuriousFreddy19:57, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I am not sure if I fully agree with you interpretation of the two. Rap as I remember was distinct from Hip-Hop, in that Hip-Hop was the commercialization of the genre. Rapping has always been about spitting rhymes about something significant such as "The Message (Grandmaster Flash and Furious Five)" and "Keep Your Head Up (2pac)". Hip Hop, the commercialization includes such songs (1) as "Rappers Delight (The Sugar Hill Gang)" and "Get Low (Lil John)" (2) clothing such as Addidas, Filas etc. tennis shoes, brand named polyester/rayon Jump Suits, exceptional large gold jewelry (3) Dances like break dancing, Popping, Moon walking, Body Rock etc. (4) Speech Mannerism: it began with an emphasis on articulation (e.g. Kool Moe Dee) and then devolved into hard slang and neo-jive (Do in part to the mainstream success of NWA).--MPA

Question from a musical pleb

What on earth is a "percussion break"?If someone who knows could create an article, that would be great! Even a stub would be fine:-)Ta bu shi da yu01:07, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Already done, now redirected.Hyacinth01:21, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
DoesBreak (music)adequately answer your question?Hyacinth01:18, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

emcee DJ

Should the article uses emcee and DJ, but it should be consistant using either emcee and deejay or MC and DJ--Clawed01:13, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Bust a rhyme

So, who feels like compeating against my wikical lyrical prowless? >:) add all my articles to your page son, they simply flawless...

Cuz hip-hop, you're the love of my life...Baduizm


Project2501a08:58, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

PS: slamming (rapping accapella) does not appear in the main article. Neither doOnyxorSaul Williams.Should I make those changes?

1) Wikipedia is not a freestlye board. Try here:http://www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi.2) You mean slam poetry? Err...if you can integrate it, I suppose. Saul Williams should be mentioned as a slam poet, but Onyx would belong on aList of hip hop musicians.I just added them. --b. Touch16:40, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

== [vandal attack fixed] == [[[User:Sprafa|Sprafa]]]

Removal

I have removed the below for various reasons, most importantly because this is not the place for it. We have lists (and categories) which collect the names of hip hop musicians, and placing them here is unwieldy and unuseful.Tuf-Kat00:00, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

Hip-hop artists who have recorded hip-hop music in various countries and languages include the following:


Forgot about Dre?

Under the heading of 2000s, it is mentioned that "it was not until the sudden breakthrough success of the hard-edged 50 Cent that hardcore hip hop returned to the pop charts," when it was actually Dr. Dre's re-emergence with2001and production of G-Unit that brought back hardcore hip hop. - Stephen Lauer 3/4/5 1:03PM

By2001,Dr. Drewas a seasoned veteran, and had left behind Hardcore hip-hop withDeath Row.No one would belive that Dre or Snoop were stillthugsorgangstas--they were full-grown men by this time.50 Cent,on the other hand, was the first hip-hop performer since2Pacto (a) cultivate a "gangsta" /criminal image and (b) become an overwhelming pop music sensation at the same time. --b. Touch19:34, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[Huh?]

[snip] 

"While many remember the white teens shouting" disco sucks "at every
available opportunity, often in racist and homophobic contexts"

[/snip]

What's this all about? I remember "disco sucks" being aimed at the white/grey co-op (think Disk Clark) on a top-40 level. But the underground & club beats were treated with nothing but awe by anyone I ever knew. Sounds like lefty fundamentalism. Though I lived in the South at the time, and from my experience nothing in the South could hold a candle to racism I saw when I first traveled to the North Eastern states.

Sale figures for eminem & nelly

Some anon changed the numbers around for the sale figuress for eminem & nelly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hip_hop_music&diff=0&oldid=15321578

anybody know what the real numbers are?

Project2501a07:55, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The way it was before, with Em at nine mil and Nelly at six mil. I fixed it. --FuriousFreddy17:42, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thank you.Project2501a21:49, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

We got your wiki tapped, what you gonna do?
cuz sooner or later we gonna rv your whole crew
all we need now is right admit or two
to make all our articles stick like glue

Marsalis on rap / hip-hop

"They take your drawers off for you, they show your ass, they sell bullshit, they call themselves 'niggaz' and the women 'bitches' and 'hos' and it's fine with everybody. That's what the essence of decadence is."-Wynton Marsalis[1]

Sounds like he's talking about mainstreamgangsta rapto me, hardly applies to the whole genre. Would be like someone listening to Wynton Marsalis and deciding post-1970s jazz was nothing but soulless corporate traditionalists peddling recycled Bird licks to clueless middle aged rich white guys. But then that would be unfair to people who aren't Wynton Marsalis. Like, for example, his brother Branford, who is adventurous enough to meld jazz with such things as...*gasp*...hip hop, releasing two whole albums in collaboration withDJ Premier.And Wynton is pretty much on his own here - the jazz musicians who have dabbled in or expressed admiration for hip hop includeHerbie Hancock,Freddie Hubbard,Donald Byrd,Greg Osby,Jason Moran,Don Byron,Kenny Garrett,Ron Carter,andMax Roach.
And by the way, if you're going to engage people in long-running discussions like the one we had up the page, don't suddenly abandon it for no apparent reason. If you don't want to finish, don't start. --Jamieli12:07, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Sounds to me someone hasn't heard any of the new stuff byRestoring Poetry to Music*poetry bum* (thank you CryptoDerk) or someone didn't have his Jazzmatazz this morning.:DProject2501a20:49, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Heads up

{{dj-stub}}Though i'd let you guys know:)Project2501a20:49, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

BreakDancing and Grafitti as elements of Hip Hop?

While I would have agree with this 20 years ago, Breakdancing and Grafitti, as it relates to Hip Hop has long since been defunct.

Every few years breakdancing and popping will bounce back as a fad, but then quickly die hard.

I think that we should insert somewhere that these were of historical significance, as opposed to making me believe that the author got his information from movies such as "Breakin'".--MPA

Breakdancing and Grafitti are still very much elements of hip-hop culture, as they always have been and always will be. Note that there is a difference between hip-hopmusicand hip-hopculture.--FuriousFreddy00:04, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left atTalk:Hip hop music/Comments,and are posted here for posterity. Followingseveral discussions in past years,these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)Press [show] to view →
The wiki for hip hop is completely the I have read on the wiki pages. There are no references to any of the classic hip hop stars. Basically every music reference on the page can be replaced with something alot better. I see no Sugar Hill, Grand Master Flash, Tribe Called Quest, Pharside,.... the list just goes on and on. Grouping "gansta rap" inside the same page as hip hop is defeating the point entirely. Mostly in my opinion this is an article about MTVs greatest hits.

Hip hop isn't music or a person. It is a culture. It is a way of dress, of life, and living.

Hip-hop and Rap are entirely different things. It is an absolute travesty that one can say that that one is another name for the other.

Hip-hop is a type of groove based around swung semiquavers and emphasis on beats 2 and 4 of the bar. Rap is a vocal technique applying rhythm to spoken words.

Rap can appear in any type of music, hip-hop is just one of them. RnB also has rap. So does Garage, Drum'n'Bass, Hard House and Techno and it would be foolish to rule out anything else one may care to name.

Hip-hop doesn't have to have any rapping in it to be hip-hop. If it's got a hip-hop groove, clever manipulation of samples, jazzy vibes, scratches, it's hip-hop. Hip-hop evolved from jazz, so don't be surprised to hear hip-hop with horns playing the main melody, or having a sung vocal line for that matter.

Most of the gangster rap music heard today is about as far removed from hip-hop as it is from smooth jazz. It contains very few of the same elements - the beats are minimal, there is very little rhythmic drive, there is rarely more than one sample used and it's not used very creatively and the rapping is often in front of the beat and the rhythmic feel straight. It's more like poetry with sound-effects than rapping in front of an upbeat driving bouncing groove, which is what hip-hop is all about.

Please can someone choose to write one article about hip-hop while another chooses to write about rap? It's true that rap came from hip-hop long before it expanded into other genres but in the context of the present you can't talk about both as if they're the same thing because rap has moved in all sorts of different directions while hip-hop is and always will be hip-hop, with or without rap.

Last edited at 01:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 20:31, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links onHip hop music.Please take a moment to reviewmy edit.If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visitthis simple FaQfor additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018.After February 2018,"External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored byInternetArchiveBot.No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other thanregular verificationusing the archive tool instructions below. Editorshave permissionto delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see theRfCbefore doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template{{source check}}(last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them withthis tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them withthis tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot(Report bug)17:50, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 May 2017

Put some full lyrics to rap music please and name this article rap instead of hip hop as rap is different from hip hopI love rap music(talk)18:28, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links onHip hop music.Please take a moment to reviewmy edit.If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visitthis simple FaQfor additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018.After February 2018,"External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored byInternetArchiveBot.No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other thanregular verificationusing the archive tool instructions below. Editorshave permissionto delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see theRfCbefore doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template{{source check}}(last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them withthis tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them withthis tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot(Report bug)18:34, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2017

DJ Kool Herc. Clive Campbell (born 16 April 1955), better known by his stage name DJ Kool Herc, is a Jamaican American DJ who is credited with originating hip hop music in the early 1970s in The Bronx, New York City.202.67.81.217(talk)06:16, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Not done:please providereliable sourcesthat support the change you want to be made.Izno(talk)15:39, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link onHip hop music.Please take a moment to reviewmy edit.If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visitthis simple FaQfor additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018.After February 2018,"External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored byInternetArchiveBot.No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other thanregular verificationusing the archive tool instructions below. Editorshave permissionto delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see theRfCbefore doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template{{source check}}(last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them withthis tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them withthis tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot(Report bug)12:04, 2 August 2017 (UTC)


Jarred,

Hello, I think we should add more things to this hip-hop page explaining how hip-hop is evolving and adding more recent events to this hip-hop page. One thing that happened recently was that cardi b a female rapper had a solo number 1 record on the billboard which would be the second female to do so. We should continue to update this page with more recent events that are happening in hip-hop.


Thank you

Jarred

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link onHip hop music.Please take a moment to reviewmy edit.If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visitthis simple FaQfor additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018.After February 2018,"External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored byInternetArchiveBot.No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other thanregular verificationusing the archive tool instructions below. Editorshave permissionto delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see theRfCbefore doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template{{source check}}(last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them withthis tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them withthis tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot(Report bug)06:42, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 December 2017

though rapping is not a required component of hip hop music; the genre may also incorporate other elements ofhip hop culture,including DJing,turntablism,scratching, beatboxing,instrumental tracks,and singing.robstaf(talk)19:52, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Not done:it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.JTP(talk•contribs)20:06, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 April 2018

This is a semi-protected edit request for the Hip Hop music page.

Hello, I would like to propose that a criticism section be added to the Hip Hop music page.

There are two Wikipedia articles that pertain to this subject. The first article is titled Misogyny_in_rap_music and the second article is titled Homophobia_in_hip_hop_culture. I am providing links to those articles below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny_in_rap_music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia_in_hip_hop_culture

I believe a new criticism section is the appropriate place for these articles. Since these are entire articles, perhaps they could be added to the See Also section instead if not a separate new criticism section.— Precedingunsignedcomment added byWikiperson777(talk•contribs)

Not done:it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide areliable sourceif appropriate.Eggishorn(talk)(contrib)18:54, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2018

The sentence "Herc created the blueprint for hip hop music and culture by building upon the Jamaican tradition of impromptu toasting, a spoken type of boastful poetry and speech over music" should be removed. Kool Herc himself denies this link (in the 1984 book Hip Hop), saying, "Jamaican toasting? Naw, naw. No connection there. I couldn't play reggae in the Bronx. People wouldn't accept it. The inspiration for rap is James Brown and the album Hustler's Convention".[1] Herc also suggests he was too young while in Jamaica to get into sound system parties: "I couldn't get in. Couldn't get in. I was ten, eleven years old," [2] and that while in Jamaica, he was listening to James Brown: "I was listening to American music in Jamaica and my favorite artist was James Brown. That's who inspired me. A lot of the records I played were by James Brown." [3]

1. "Hip Hop: The Illustrated History of Break Dancing, Rap Music, and Graffiti", by Steven Hager, 1984, St Martin's Press, p. 45. 2. "Kool Herc". DJhistory.com. Archived from the original on June 1, 2015. Retrieved January 27, 2014. 3. "Davey D's Hip-Hop Corner". Retrieved December 20, 2005.2601:406:5000:1B45:6CE1:6B3D:FD0E:6589(talk)06:02, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Not doneYour quoted passages would suggest that Kool Herc still "created the blueprint"under the inspiration ofJames Brown. In my opinion, the sentence that you're proposing to remove is still factually correct.StrikerforceTalk13:54, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Article is very long; history-oriented

There is a clear consensus to support the proposal to do a "move-rename of this page to" History of hip hop music "and linked creation of a new 'Hip hop music" article'.

Cunard(talk) 01:09, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed.Please do not modify it.Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This article is long and has a large focus on the history of hip-hop music. As articles are meant to be encyclopedic, this content is too dense and it may be worth looking into splitting some of it off into a new article (e.g. "Origins of hip hop music" or "History of hip hop music" ).

It is helpful to put yourself into the shoes of the average viewer. I would wager to guess that someone looking for an encyclopedic article on hip hop music 'might'not want to read 20,000 words on the intricate and detailed history of the genre. This article needs generalization.

Let's RfC on a possible future preparation and move-rename of this page to "History of hip hop music" and linked creation of a new "Hip hop music" article. This would take a while, of course. Let me know what you think. -Dmezh(talk)06:13, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

I'dsupportsuch an idea.StrikerforceTalk13:49, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed.Please do not modify it.Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This Article Has Existential Problems

In it's current form, the large majority of this article is unsourced theorizing, riffs, tangents, etc, that wouldn't be accepted in any other article of similar importance (and lets not minimize that; this is an important article. To allow it to exist in this condition is sad). Requesting suggestions on how to go about dealing with this mess without causing a bunch of butthurt, edit wars, etc since slash-and-burn editing is the only option I can see that would begin to bring this article up to Wikipedia policy standards.Musicology1(talk)16:28, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello,Musicology1(talk·contribs) - I agree. Please read my proposal below. -Dmezh(talk)06:26, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

I thought that this article was pretty informative and provided a better generalization of hip-hop music for me. I found new facts I hadn't known about before. I believe the article can be corrected and revised by providing more examples of the different type of rap and explaining them in detail.— Precedingunsignedcomment added byWpojim(talk•contribs)21:10, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

New Hip Hop

When Long Island RapperTop Ninjacame on the rap scene it was all different. His style was like no other rapper.— Precedingunsignedcomment added byCi189215(talk•contribs)14:00, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

[1]

The key idea of this source was to inform readers that rap music is more than music, and we have to look at the other ways it can benefit us. The article explains that it can be a way for the black community to discuss the serious issues we face. I can use it for my source because it can serve as a counter-argument for anyone opposing rap music.— Precedingunsignedcomment added byWpojim(talk•contribs)21:09, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^lpclibrary.idm.oclc.org/login?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebscohost.com%2Flogin.aspx%3Fdirect&db=a9h&AN=131688893&site=ehost-live.

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between2 February 2021and14 May 2021.Further details are availableon the course page.Student editor(s):This is Axel.

Above undated message substituted fromTemplate:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignmentbyPrimeBOT(talk)22:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between19 August 2020and7 December 2020.Further details are availableon the course page.Student editor(s):Cgagyemang.Peer reviewers:Avlangst,Rebbekkah.

Above undated message substituted fromTemplate:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignmentbyPrimeBOT(talk)23:28, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

ERAs

Disagree on the golden age. Golden age of hip-hop was 1988 to 1994 and that's pretty much consensus and has been for a long time now. 86 and 87 were not great years, and you can't count 95-97 because the game skill was in decline by that time. After 1994, the rhyme skill decline began and the over-commercialization machine was activated. Sure, we still had a lot of great acts compared to today, but those who know the art of rhyming could tell the music started to decline in skill gradually from that point forward. By 2000, unskilled rhymers like Nelly were dominating and hip-hop never recovered.

Also, I consider 2010-present the "Tight Pants Era" since it perfectly captures everything wrong with hip-hop today as well as appropriately shaming it for what it's become: Tight feminine clothes on the male rappers. Wack, unclever lyrics from 99.99999% of mainstream rappers, poor technical skills from many, and the listeners too brain dead to notice the issue. It's been an incredibly weird, incredibly wack time with no end in sight. ---- The Rhyme Critic, 11/13/2021

"FRENCH HIP-HOP" (Second Largest Hip-Hop market after the United States)

French Hip Hop was started by "Sidney Duteil". Sidney Duteil, better known as Sidney, is a French musician, rapper, DJ, television and radio host, and occasional actor of Guadeloupe origin, an island in the Caribbean. He is well known in France for his connection with the beginnings of the French hip hop scene. He presented a hip hop radio program on Radio 7 from 1982. In 1984, he was the host of the popular weekly French Rap television show entitled H.I.P. H.O.P., it was France's first television show and first regular nationwide weekly show in the world to be dedicated to the hip hop culture. It was broadcast each Sunday afternoon on the French national channel TF1 in 1984, from January 14, for 43 weeks, which had a certain impact on the beginnings of the French hip hop scene. They had guests such as Herbie Hancock on February 19, Sugarhill Gang, Kurtis Blow, Afrika Bambaataa, The Rock Steady Crew, Art of Noise or Madonna and graffiti artists such as Futura 2000. This was significant for two reasons: first because Duteil became the first Black man in France to hold such a position, and secondly because the birth and eventual popularity of the weekly show demonstrated the growing admiration and involvement in the French population in hip hop culture - TazzoThaboss— Precedingunsignedcomment added by153.254.157.18(talk)11:18, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Jamaican toasting wasn't the origin of hip hop; liking a theory isn't enough; no data supports the claim

Study probablity theory. Most of the time people mimic others, but they can also discover something alone because we all play and examine the abilities of the same body and find tricks. The primitive homo sapiens invented something resembling hip hop; not modern humans. If you claim that primitive people immediately knew how to sing opera you are a lier. Rhythm is more ancient than tonal theory and tonal control!— Precedingunsignedcomment added by2A02:587:4107:F900:293B:C3B7:DAC7:1C91(talk)03:21, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

I get it americans want to claim something for themselves and I have no problem with that but the fact is hip hop is danchall reggae. I get it, you're saying there are no facts to prove that and what you're saying is there are no written facts to prove that but you don't need written facts to prove it in this occasion.The 1st set of rap artists we're all West Indians majority of them Jamaicans. Now why do you think that is? Some of the biggest artists from the seventies and eighties were all West Indians so honestly why is that? I hate to be so blunt but black americans did not create hip hop. They changed it, not create. Please do some actual homework before posting a comment like this because even the wiki don't speak of the music true origin.209.6.185.103(talk)00:47, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
This isnt true hip hop is an american creation created by black americans. Dance hall is actually influenced by hip hop it was created in the early 80s, while hip hop was created in 1970. Jamaican music pioneers like sir coxsone, count machuki, u-roy and bob marley are on video talking about the american influence on jamaican music. They're also on video admitting toasting came from copying americans rapping and jive talking. Kool herc and other caribbean people assimilated into an already existing american culture. Hip hop was understand before 1973, thats why herc and dj smokey both say hip hop started in 1970. Which is before herc became a dj. The story of herc creating hip hop and the 3 founding fathers of hip hop is a lie made up by africa bambaataa.Spade Power(talk)16:56, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

2Pac

2Pac is nowhere to be found in the Overview. This seems to be a massive oversight and glaring omission, in any overview of the general history of hip hop music covering the West Coast in the 1990s.— Precedingunsignedcomment added by2601:600:827F:EAD8:E938:9D40:4A18:8C9C(talk)09:31, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Origin

Hip Hop was created by African American and Latino Americans in urban communities of the Bronx. Not only African Americans. There’s proof of this in history. The page needs to be edited correctly.Heribertovelazqueziii(talk)21:40, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Latino people or their culture has no influence on hip hop culture or music. Hip hop culture and music is strictly an Black American / African American creation. Latinos have their own culture.Spade Power(talk)16:59, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Hip Hop music wasnt created by Latinos at all. There is proof is this. Hip Hop was created by Rudy Ray Moore aka the Godfather of Hip Hop who is not Latino but African American. He created it in the late 60s and early 70s. The same man who would be known as Dolemite and he didn't do it in the Bronx at all. All the first rappers credit him as their influence and the creator of the genre. Try again.— Precedingunsignedcomment added byMusiccreed01(talk•contribs)18:57, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Nope! Hip hop is danchall reggae.209.6.185.103(talk)00:50, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Latinos simply IMITATED what the neighboring blacks were doing. They had nothing to do with Hip Hop's origins.4.59.43.82(talk)21:57, 17 February 2020 (UTC)


Hip hop music was mainly created by African Americans and Afro-American Carribeans therefore they should be credited for it, Latino contribution to Hip Hop is limited. Hip hop is directly influenced by Reggae Music that comes from Jamaica. Besides that it is African Americans that have contributed in making it the art form it is today.Fjnplbv(talk)09:27, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
Nope! Hip hop is danchall reggae.209.6.185.103(talk)00:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Exactly. Always trying to steal our contributions. Give credit to where its due. Hip hop itself was created by a black american man named Rudy Ray Moore. Dj Kool Herc and more have credited the man as being the creator and their biggest influences. The man Dolemite who they did a tribute for and so many times through out the old videos and interviews to the new they stated Rudy Ray Moore created hip Hop.

Hip Hop was created by African Americans solely. Black Carribean and Latino immigrants only imitated African American culture, similar to what they still do today. African American culture is pop culture worldwide and influenced many other ethnicities and cultures. A few subcultures that branched off of African American genres (Hip-Hop, Rap, R&B, Blues, Jazz, etc) are subgenres such as Afrobeats and Reggae. Godfather of Afrobeats, Fela Kuti, traveled to America to study African American music to create the subgenre Afrobeats. Fela Kuti mentioned in an interview that his inspiration was African Americans such as James Brown, Bootsy Collins and the activist group known as “the Black Panther party”.

The creation of Reggae was influenced by the Rhythm and Blues created by African Americans. In the 1950s the music of Fats Domino, Ray Charles and Louis Jordan was played on the island via Southern American radio stations. Jamaicans inspired tried to imitate African Americans music style and they called the imitation “Reggae”. Judy Mowatt, a Jamaican singer, revealed in an interview that “they” would listen to Dionne Warwick, an African American singer, and try to sing exactly like her and they would study the African American female singing trio, the Supremes. Daddy Vego, Jamaican founder of “Original Peoples Sound” quoted in an interview, “At the time it was Rhythm & Blues. Jamaica plays most American stations. So, all the music we’re hearing American music. Following WWII many Jamaicans traveled to Southern states of the US on seasonal farm work where they encountered African Americans playing Jazz, Soul and Funk music. Inspired by African Americans Jamaicans followed in the footsteps of African Americans by practicing the genre on the island of Jamaica.Blakkbird(talk)20:03, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the 2010s in hip hop

This decade has been absolutely massive for the genre, which has grown to dominate charts, popular culture, and internet culture in its place of origin, the United States, while enjoying breakout success globally as an export and in local forms. Rap features prominently in modern pop music and has seen notable crossover into electronic, alternative, and even country music. However, as of this writing the article fails to capture hip hop's place of importance in today's zeitgeist, save for a note mentioning that hip hop became the most popular genre in 2017.

With the 2010s drawing to a close, interested editors ought to overhaul this section, maybe with the assistance of decade end retrospectives as they begin showing up on music and culture websites.

--Adifex(talk)01:50, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Birth year of hip-hop: 1973

Would August 11, 1973 be considered the official birthdate of hip-hop since that's when DJ Kool Herc first introduced a method of hip-hop djing at a party in The Bronx? A lot of news sources covered it such as the History Channel, Google Doodle, Complex Magazine, etc. A lot of hip-hop artists also consider that the birthdate too.TrackerMercurial136(talk)05:24, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 November 2019

Why is there that mid-title "Teargarden and Oceania" in the middle of the east-coast west-coast rivalry part???92.184.110.100(talk)09:39, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

I have no idea, but I've removed it. —KuyaBriBriTalk14:53, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2020

Hello, there is some misinformation on the hip hop portion of the page that needs to be edited. The problem is in the beginning of the page. It misplaced that Latinos also created hip hop which this isn't true at all. Hip Hop was created by black american people and the black man instrumental in creating hip hop didn't come from Bronx, NY and wasn't in Bronx, NY when it was created. Actor and musician Rudy Ray Moore is regarded and confirmed as the creator of Hop Hop. Saying this takes the full contributions of black Americans and place a whole other group who didn't create the genre in taking credit which wasn't earned or given credit that isn't true. I can post links and more confirming my facts. I would like for the Latino portion to be removed from the top as the creator because its inaccurate. Latinos, like other groups, partook and partake in hip hop but did not influence its creation at all.


UPDATE WITH SOURCES:

Hello, this is me again. Here are some reliable sources fortelling that Hip Hop was only created by black americans and not latinos at all. That Rudy Ray Moore aka a black american man actually created hip hop.


https://time.com/5711219/dolemite-is-my-name-rudy-ray-moore-legacy/

https://www.biography.com/news/who-was-rudy-ray-moore-godfather-of-rap-dolemite

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95935377

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/movies/22moore.html

https://www.dia.org/events/origins-hip-hop-dolemite

Thank You for your time.Musiccreed01(talk)18:40, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Not done:please providereliable sourcesthat support the change you want to be made.Majavah(t/c)18:42, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Nope, hip hop was not created by black Americans. It is danchall reggae in its true and original form period. Stop trying to make it into something it is not.209.6.185.103(talk)00:55, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


Hello, this is me again. Here are some reliable sources proving that Hip Hop was only created by black americans and not latinos at all. That Rudy Ray Moore aka a black american man actually created hip hop.


https://time.com/5711219/dolemite-is-my-name-rudy-ray-moore-legacy/

https://www.biography.com/news/who-was-rudy-ray-moore-godfather-of-rap-dolemite

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95935377

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/movies/22moore.html

https://www.dia.org/events/origins-hip-hop-dolemite


Reliable evidence HAS been posted, and it is MUCH MORE reliable then the sole opinion piece citation that calls for Latino inclusion in the origins of Hip Hop.4.59.43.82(talk)22:04, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2020

Hello, this is me again. Here are some reliable sources that you've requested that Hip Hop was only created by black americans and not latinos at all. That Rudy Ray Moore aka Dolemite aka a black american man actually created hip hop. I request that the latino american word be taken down as creators of hip hop when they had no influence in its creation and later partook in the genre, like other groups, after it was created and nothing more.


RELIABLE & Historical Proof and sources below:


https://time.com/5711219/dolemite-is-my-name-rudy-ray-moore-legacy/

https://www.biography.com/news/who-was-rudy-ray-moore-godfather-of-rap-dolemite

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95935377

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/movies/22moore.html

https://www.dia.org/events/origins-hip-hop-dolemiteMusiccreed01(talk)19:21, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Not done for now:please establish aconsensusfor this alterationbeforeusing the{{edit semi-protected}}template.DannyS712(talk)10:34, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Let my vote be the second to AGREE with the removal of Latinos as the co-creators creators of Hip Hop. Therefore it is two to none, which makes a consensus.4.59.43.82(talk)22:06, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2020

Hello, I request an edit of the page hip hop because there is strong inaccurate information placed on one thing. In the article it is showing that Latinos are added as the creators of hip hop. This in fact is not true at all whatsoever. Hip Hop was created solely by African Americans aka black Americans. The black American man who is regarded and proven and confirmed to be the father or creator of hip hop is Rudy Ray Moore who is confirmed to be the godfather of hip hop. Rudy Ray Moore who is most famously known as the blackexploitation character Dolemite created Hip Hop in the late 60s early 70s.

The biggest influences of hip hop and the said founders all stated that Rudy Ray Moore is the creator of hip hop and their biggest influences. Latinos, like other groups of people, partook in the genre after it was created but didn't create nor help create it. This needs to be edited now because its giving false and inaccurate credit making it all uncredible to visitors. Thank You for your time. Here are the links to some of many extremely credible source:

https://time.com/5711219/dolemite-is-my-name-rudy-ray-moore-legacy/ https://www.biography.com/news/who-was-rudy-ray-moore-godfather-of-rap-dolemite https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95935377 https://www.dia.org/events/origins-hip-hop-dolemite https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/movies/22moore.htmlMusiccreed01(talk)19:42, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Not done for now:please establish aconsensusfor this alterationbeforeusing the{{edit semi-protected}}template.DannyS712(talk)10:34, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

I too SECOND that Latinos having being the co-creators of Hip Hop be edited out of the article. That is a gross inaccuracy that is not supported by a legitimate source. The citation given is an "opinion" piece.4.59.43.82(talk)21:59, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2020

Under 1970s ---> Introduction of rapping, "Rudy Ray Moore" Should lead to the wikipedia page for that person.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Ray_MooreTyphic(talk)08:09, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Done–Thjarkur(talk)09:55, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2020

"FRENCH HIP-HOP" in France (Second Largest Hip-Hop market after the United States) was started by "Sidney Duteil". Sidney Duteil (born Patrick Duteil in 1955 in Argenteuil, Val-d'Oise), better known as Sidney, is a French musician, rapper, DJ, television and radio[1] host, and occasional actor of Guadeloupe origin, an island in the Caribbean. He is well known in France for his connection with the beginnings of the French hip hop scene. He presented a hip hop radio program on Radio 7 from 1982. In 1984, he was the host of the popular weekly French Rap television show entitled H.I.P. H.O.P., it was France's first television show and first regular nationwide weekly show in the world to be dedicated to the hip hop culture. It was broadcast each Sunday afternoon on the French national channel TF1 in 1984, from January 14, for 43 weeks, which had a certain impact on the beginnings of the French hip hop scene. They had guests such as Herbie Hancock on February 19, Sugarhill Gang, Kurtis Blow, Afrika Bambaataa, The Rock Steady Crew, Art of Noise or Madonna and graffiti artists such as Futura 2000. This was significant for two reasons: first because Duteil became the first Black man in France to hold such a position, and secondly because the birth and eventual popularity of the weekly show demonstrated the growing admiration and involvement in the French population in hip hop culture - TazzoThaboss153.254.157.18(talk)11:16, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

We would need some goodsourcesto demonstrate that Sidney is noteworthy enough to mention in this large article. –Thjarkur(talk)11:31, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2020

Hip Hop is African American cultural music developed by African Americans in the inner city of New York.It was devoloped as an artistic outlet for African American youth to voice political, popular, musical, and racial violations against African Americans[1].Kay3457(talk)08:29, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Not done:it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide areliable sourceif appropriate.Interstellarity(talk)12:10, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^Sullivan, Megan. "African-American music as rebellion: From slavesong to hip-hop." Discoveries 3 (2001): 21-39.

Important section

Is there no criticism about this genre? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people arguing "rap is not music" since the beginning of this genre. We need a criticism section.Enjoyer of World(talk)00:10, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation needed in the section 'World hip hop music': 9th paragraph refers to Hadouken! and incorrectly links to 'Hadouken' the Japanese game attack; ought to link toHadouken! (band).109.155.83.4(talk)19:08, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

hip-hop history

Bold textwe have many kid rapper's that girl lay lay,young Dylan,sky kaze,and it goes on.— Precedingunsignedcomment added by2605:A601:AE0D:3300:79EF:3438:7CD0:4234(talk)15:19, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2021

Hip-hop often has a rhythm with an odd metertime signature(5/8, 6/4 etc.), afunkybassline,music samples,soul musicstylesingingandrapping.83.137.6.238(talk)02:23, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Not done:it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide areliable sourceif appropriate.54nd60x(talk)04:50, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Could someone create a navigation box called Articles related to Hip Hop and put Rap rock in it?2601:C7:C201:C640:D9C2:F2B4:E75C:1EAD(talk)16:58, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Already doneSeeTemplate:Hip hopScottishFinnishRadish(talk)17:20, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
No. I meant: Could someone put a navigation box called Articles related to Hip Hip and put the templates for Hip Hop, American Hip Hop, and Rap Rock in it?

"Mumble rap" should not be recognized as a genre in this article

"Mumble rap" has always just been a buzzword used by critics (mostly older people) to unfairly invalidate modern rap music. This is supposed to be an informative and unbiased article.Fuegotakis(talk)00:00, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Request for comment

There is an RfC ongoing about a topic that contributors to this article may be interested in. It can be foundhere.JimKaatFan(talk)15:06, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

This definitely wasn't the first hip-hop song'

The first ever hip-hop song or proto-rap song was PRİSENCÓLİNENSİNÁİNCIÚSOL, composed by the Italian singer Adriano Celentano.88.144.183.136(talk)20:39, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Your source?Ghmyrtle(talk)21:22, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Sex

Sex in hindi2409:4064:2E1B:258B:0:0:52CB:9C0D(talk)20:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@2409:4064:2E1B:258B:0:0:52CB:9C0Dwhat does this have to do with the hip hop talk page. can you be a little more specific.Ruach the creator(talk)05:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Change range for blog era and trap era

It was 2015-2017 when trap really started to grow into bigger mainstream. Blog era was up till the mid 2010s. Blog should be up till 2015, 2016 the latest and trap really starting 2015 and or after mostly. By 2017-2018 trap became full blown with mumble growing more right after. Maybe instead of putting exact years you should just go by early mid late standard.

Like golden era mid 80s to mid 90s Bling late 90s to mid 00s Blog mid or late 00s to mid 10s Trap mid or late 10s to?2600:1700:A9B0:6B90:146:B3C6:FF75:CAF2(talk)06:57, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Hiphop

Why are TLC and Foxy brown and other Ladyraappers no in the list?— Precedingunsignedcomment added by2001:16B8:A52:DC00:885A:6675:C76E:F90F(talk)16:31, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Hip hop history being censored?

Why is this wikicontent on hip hop protected? It is because the hip hop narrative needs to be controlled by racists. Instead of showing that hip-hop is a creation of pluralistic American artist, these racists would like to steer the history towards an all black creation. The fact is that as early as 1980 performances by Chic/ Sugarhill gang / Blondie in NY ushered in hip-hop into mainstream American culture. The fact that a non-black band, Blondie, brought rap to mainstream America with their #1 Billboard Hot 100 hit Rapture in 1981 doesn't align with the narrative these racists are pushing is the real reason this entry is "protected."69.124.49.215(talk)02:32, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Under World hip hop music section, 7th paragraph

"Politik Pa m"

-->

"Politik Pam"

2605:A601:A388:3200:AD47:3B8B:B7CE:5A68(talk)01:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Photos should represent the biggest names, not XXXTentacion

I have twiced removed a photo ofXXXTentacionbecause he does not appear onWP:SECONDARYlists of the greatest rappers. I think this article should emphasize the most important points of the topic.

For instance,Complexmagazine wrote up an exhaustive list of the biggest rap stars for every year from 1979 to 2022, including lengthy lists of names that were almost the biggest and they don't list XXXTentacion at all.[2]TheEvening Standardin the UK made a smaller list in 2018, listing the most influential rappers chronologically from Kool Herc to Drake.[3]XXXTentacion is not listed. In 2020,Cleveland.comlisted the top 50 rappers since 2000, and XXXTentacion is not on it.[4]In 2022,GQmagazine listed the 20 best hip hop albums of all time and XXXTentacion is not there.[5]In 2021, Music in Minnesota listed the 10 most influential rappers, and XXXTentacion wasn't mentioned.[6]In 2018, XXXTentacion won some awards for his album17,but he was not listed byComplexmagazine in their assessment of hip hop in the decade 2010 to 2020.[7]

Let's not promote the legacy of XXXTentacion in a non-neutral manner, emphazing his contribution out of balance with the sources.Binksternet(talk)18:21, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Doja Cat has an image simply for being the most streamed rapper on Spotify on a singular year. If THAT deserves an image, having the best streaming rap album of all time on Spotify certainly warrants one.
Considering your less than neutral edits to say the least on theXXXTentacionpage itself, it’s obvious you have some sort of negative personal connection to the artist and want to diminish the artist’s achievements and notability.

TheXuitts(talk)20:41, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

The defense of Doja Cat's photo would have to include an attempt to countergender bias on Wikipedia.Basically, we need to have some women rappers pictured. Her photo could of course be replaced with something else in the female line, for instance Lauren Hill or Queen Latifah or anybody listed as influential in articles such as"10 Female Rappers Who Changed the Hip-Hop Game"or"A History of the Female Rapper".Doja Cat andM.I.A. (rapper)are the only women represented in photos in this article, which is entirely inadequate. Those two are from the 21st century. Earlier female rappers had a gigantic influence.
Funny you should bring up my "less than neutral edits". The whole reason we are here now is because I am responding to your less than neutral promotion of XXXTentacion. You keep pumping that guy up beyond all reason. He was big for a brief time, but not so influential as you imagine. The most-streamed hip hop album on Spotify? That's not a measure of how big an artist is. The great majority of hip hop songs are streamed individually as part of playlists, not within albums, and more people are streaming Drake than any other rapper.[8][9]Do we have a photo of Drake? No we don't. Drake and a bunch of other cats are all in line ahead of XXXTentacion.Binksternet(talk)22:00, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
I added the image because I saw the Doja Cat image and figured that if that is notable enough, so is the most-streamed album.

The counter to that justification for Doja Cat’s image would be, simply that more men are involved in hip hop than women. As a feminist, that’s just the reality of the situation, it doesn’t have to do with gender bias for this page specifically. If XXXTentacion’s image is to be removed, so should Doja Cat’s.TheXuitts(talk)23:09, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

DJ Kool Herc didn’t bring Jamaican influence to America

DJ Kool Herc came to America at age 12. He was not in attendance at any Jamaican sound-system parties as a school-aged child, but he was a big James Brown fan. It is not sensible to say he “introduced an extended-break technique from Jamaican dub music” to early Hip Hop. He was too young to have been that involved in any live music culture while still in Jamaica. His influences as a DJ were almost all American.2600:1001:B129:80E1:A501:EA04:8A39:2CF9(talk)15:19, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Hip Hop Music is Black American Created Music

Where on earth did these people get the silly idea that some "latinos" were involved in the creation of Hip Hop? They weren't! Notice how Wikipedia endorses cultural appropriation. Read the text, "Hip hop music or hip-hop music... developed in the United States by inner-city African Americans, Caribbean Americans and Latino mericans in the Bronx borough of New York City in the 1970s."

The word used is "developed," meaning it was contributed to by others. Use the word "CREATED." No one created Hip Hop but Black people. The evidence is all over. This is Black Culture music, just as are Jazz, Blues, Swing, Rock n Roll, Soul, RnB. Black people factually created these genres and others thereafter were allowed to participate, contribute and even to help develop.

Another problem is the word "latin." Your article reads African-Americans, which is a race and ethnicity; then you state "latin" and "carribean." Latin is not a race nor is Caribbean. These are mere ethnic groups, which many overlap with Black. You have Black Latinos/Latinas and Black Caribbean. You are throwing a race with non-races, which includes even White and Mestizo (Native/American and White Heritage) as "developing" the genre. White people nor Mestizos "created" Hip Hop.

Notice, also, there is no footnote cited source after the sentence, because any source that claims that "latin" anything "developed," as if to imply "created," Hip hop is also false. You people engage in cultural appropriation and you use broad terms, that even include white people, to group them in with a defined race and ethnic group, Black. What is the race of the Latin? Puerto Rican, Mexican, Honduran, etc, are not races of people. If the Latin person were Black, what is the need to say "Latin"? It is irrelevant because it would merely need to read: Black people, regardless of ethnicity, developed Hip Hop.

The other problem that you have with this is that many of us are still around! We remember the early days of Hip Hop! It is Black American music in which Blacks did not object to others joining in and contributing. That is all they did! In Fact Rudy Ray Moore had been a pioneer, if not the originator formally so, of Hip Hop. In the late 60s, you are not going to find any latin involved. And if you do, it is very very very very few! Even then, they were contributing to a genre that had already been created. Do you people also plan to try to claim other genres as your own, just as you did Rock n Roll?

You are 100% wrong and 100% offensive.

Hip Hop is Black American "CREATED" music.Lordwind2020(talk)07:31, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Show Evidence That Latinos/Caribbeans Helped Create Hip Hop

I am most interested in your claim that Hip Hop began by Latinos and Carribeans. You have any proof for that claim? I bet you don't, because rap is older than the 70s. This is not disputable. Rudy Ray Moore raps in his comedy to music in the 60s. Rudy is called the God Father of Hip Hop. Hilarious! LOL Crazy Legs was born in 1966. Hip hop had already begun in the late 60s. Trying to Steal Black American Culture. Produce EVIDENCE for your claim. YOU HAVE NONE! Here: Rudy Ray Moorehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Ray_Moore"The recordings often featured Moore delivering profanity-filled rhyming poetry, which later earned Moore the nickname" the Godfather of Rap. "<==FROM YOUR VERY OWN WIKIPEDIA! LOL SHOW US PROOF! I showed proof by your VERY OWN WIKIPEDIA. LOL We have opened our culture to you and now we are going to start CLOSIING IT! We have had enough of your DISHONESTY and EXPLOITATION. The African-American Culture will become less embracing and sharing. There is no reconciliation anymore. Do not appropriate our culture. You're not welcomed. (Tried stealing Jazz too, but you did steal Rock n Roll.)Lordwind2020(talk)02:10, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia, Please Remove the Author's Unsubstantiated Claims

This author claimed that Hip Hop was created in the Bronx by African-Americans, Latinos and Carribean people. Where is the proof for that? The Author initially provided no citation. Upon requesting proof, the author provided the citation number 7. This citation directs you to: Vargas, Andrew S. (April 2, 2015). "NPR Recognizes We've Been Here Since Day 1 in A Latino History of Hip Hop". Remezcla. Retrieved January 11, 2022. This source does NOT say that Latinos created Hip Hop. It says that Latinos played a ROLE in Hip Hop, never was a creator of Hip Hop. This author is engaging in deception. Please remove this article or force the author to provide absolute proof that Hip Hop was created by African-Americans, Latinos and Carribeean. The fact is: Hip Hop is a term created by African-Americans, as Rap is a term used by African -Americans to mean talk, the God Father of Hip Hop is an African-American, and the first Hip Hop records were by African-Americaans. Why? Because Hip Hop is solely an African-American created genre. Latinos and Carribean people CONTRIBUTED to the genre, just as the author's citeed source reads Played a role and Contributed, but never Created it. Please cite your sources. I doubt you can, because the genre had already been created iin the late 60s but given a name in the early 70s by Cowboy. No latinos, who are not a race, were not around when even rapping began. Your source is deceptive because it does not say Latinos created hip hop.Lordwind2020(talk)07:43, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Page Needs to Be Entirely Rewritten

Much of what is written in this article is completely false or historically inaccurate, and there is also a lot of poor grammar and syntax.

DJ Kool Herc himself clearly said that there was no Jamaican cultural influence in the creation of hip hop. In fact, he said that if he had tried to play Jamaican music in the Bronx, no one would listen to it. He said that rapping has nothing to do with toasting and DJing has nothing to do with Jamaican sound systems. He also said that all of his hip hop influences came from James Brown and that even when he was living in Jamaica he was listening to James Brown.

The first breakthrough rapping songs were all either funk and disco or post-funk and post-disco. The other posts on this talk page noting that Caribbean and Latino influence is greatly overstated in the article are correct.021120x(talk)15:18, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Hip Hop Is Black American Music, Regardless Where Blacks Come From. All Blacks come From Africa.

Hip Hop is Black American Music. Where are your Latino and Hispanics? Latino and Hispanic are not RACES of people. You have Black Latinos/Hispanics, White Latinos/Hispanics, a few Asian Latinos/Hispanics, and Mesttizo (Native-American/Mixed Latinos/Hispanics). Let us be clear that it is not even proper to say BLacks (who are a race) and Latinos/Hispanics (who are of all races). The comparison is as silly as saying "Whites and Americans." Does that make sense? No. There are Whites who are also American so you can never say Whites versus Americans.

Second point: All People come from Black Africans. Technically, ALL music comes from Blackk people. ALL people are descendants of Black Africans. These are GENETIC FACTS!!! Genes speak the entire story. Technically, you other groups are nothing but genetic mutations of Black African people. Sorry that scientific fact gets in the way. Blacks lived on the planet without such other such "mutated groups" for MOST of humanity's existence. Scientific and historic fact.

Third point. Why does Wikipedia keep trying to say "Latinos" were involved in creating Hip Hop? Which race? Black Latinos? White Latinos? Asian Latinos? Mestizo Latinos? Why do you mention the Black race and then switch talk about some made up Ethnic Groups! Notice, I say: Ethnic Groups. Just as Hispanics are not the same race and color, they are also not the same ETHNIC GROUP not matter how many times people have tried saying otherwise. Let me show you: Black Puerto Ricans are not the same ETHNIC GROUP as Asians in Brazil as Whites in Mexico or Mestizos in Honduras! Just as Black Americans are NOT the same ETHNIC GROUP as Blacks Ashanti of Ghana but both are the same race!

(I know I have destroyed all of such bullcrap myths! I know.)

So where are your "Hispanics and Latinos" that "created" Hip Hop? Where are they? Show me. If you could, it would only be only a few and not the driving force of its' creation. Notice Wikipedia tried changing the footnote in the beginning but then says this, "Many of the people who helped establish hip hop culture, including DJ Kool Herc, DJ Disco Wiz, Grandmaster Flash, and Afrika Bambaataa were of Latin American or Caribbean origin." Why did you not say that the Black Americans who established Hip Hop are from Black African origin? Why did you exclude Black Americans' origins? Because you would have to say that Hip Hop is from Black African origin, because the Afrika Bambaataa, Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash's origins are immediately from Black Africa originally, not some mere island. Even the "Hispanic" person's origins are from Black Africa.

Now, did you all notice the line up? All clearly Black people, but one. DJ Disco Wiz, Mr. Luis Cedeño. Where does Mr. Luis Cedeño get his nurturing, mentoring and inspiration from? Answer: AFrika Bambaataa. Mr. Luis Cedeño has no business being listed as if he was an ORIGINATOR. You don't learn from other cultures and claim you are an "ORIGINATOR." You notice how Wikipedia wanted to (1) allude to the fact that Hip Hop is not only Black American, as they mentioned other groups former home where the music never even originated, but they never mention Black Americans' former immediate home, which is Black Africa. Guess What? That is the former home of the other Blacks; (2) Never tell you that Mr. Luis Cedeño learned from Mr. Afrika Bambaataa. They battled each other eventually as teacher and student, but Mr. Luis Cedeño has no place with the teacher as a "Creator."

The fact is: I would welcome Non-Black Hispanics and Latinos. But you cannot find any! Why? Because they were STUDENTS and GUESTS, not creators of Hip Hop. Hip Hop is named by a Black man. The God of Hip Hop is a Black man. The genre is primarily pushed by Black People. Breakdancing comes from Black people, and when non-Black Hispanics join in, Blacks are not doing it anymore. It is old! scratching is created by a Black man. DJing and Graffiti are nothing unique to Hip Hop. Mentioning those is like saying having ALBULMS and RECORDS are part of Hip Hop! That is nothing UNIQUE to Hip Hop! In fact, graffiti in music is not and does not come from Hip Hop.

sorry, Non-Black Hispanics for trying to steal BLACK CULTURE! Try again! Oh, I guess you would try, considering you are nothing but a DESCENDAnT OF BLACK AFRICANS TO BEGIN WITH! Do not offend the very people as to why humanity has such variation. Only Black people can make that claim just only Black Americans can claim creating Hip Hop. You joined in later and contributed, sure; but you are NOT THE ORIGINATORS.

I am happy to educate.:)

Wikipedia, make them cite their unbias sources or delete it. Mr. Luis Cedeño is not an "originator" just as the first Latino Rapper Mr. Whipple was influenced by the brother Kool Herc. Mr. Whipple is no more an originator than is Mr. Luis Cedeño who was mentored, influenced and taught by Afrikaa Bambaataa. Wikipedia, are you encouraging misinformation about Black American Culture? Make people cite their sources or disallow their saying it. Notice, everytime they include a non-Black Hispanic/Latino, these individuals are inspired, taught or influenced by BLACK PEOPLE who live in America.Lordwind2020(talk)13:01, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

A book to use for more info

The Rise of Hip-HopKdammers(talk)18:59, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


German Hip Hop

The parts about the German rap scene sound like they were written by some leftist sociology major. For me as a German and long-time listener of German rap it's silly how half of it is about there being "several Turkish performers" and the other half about nazi comparisons. Sure, I get it: When Americans hear Germany, they immediately think of Hitler, who can blame them? At least Bushido and Fler are actually famous rappers who were arguably important for the development of German gangster rap. Portraying them as some sort of almost-nazis is just ridiculous. Fler did play with nazi aesthetics, not because he would endorse nazism in any way but, well, I'd say 95% to get attention and 5% to emphasize him being one of the few ethnic Germans in a subculture dominated by sons of migrants. Similar to how Eminem has played with his whiteness. As for Bushido it's laughable that everything an unaware reader reads about him is one semi-controversial line with a Hitler comparison. It would be much more interesting to read about his involvement with organized crime for instance. It's even more absurd as Kool Savas is mentioned who used far more crass nazi comparisons in his early days... obviously also not because he was somehow sympathetic with nazism but because he was one of the first German battle rappers long before the type of wokey who would write such an article was born. Ask any German rap fan over 30 who is the king of rap, I bet 90% would answer Kool Savas. Today, there are many rappers with similar or better skills, but he was perhaps the first really outstanding German rapper. And yes, he is of Turkish descent. As for the others: Azad is proudly Kurdish and I don't think he would enjoy being reduced to his supposed Turkishness. And I've never heard of Cartel. Long story short: You focus on weird particularities instead of outlining what was actually important in the development of German rap. Kool Savas, Bushido, Fler and Azad certainly were and are important for German hip hop but not for being Turkish or dropping a Hitler line. But because they were 4 of the earliest commercially successful rappers. Before them, there were the likes of Die Fantastischen 4 and Fettes Brot, who were more of the harmless, pop rap type (think Beastie Boys) plus some legends that never became truly successful in the wider mainstream, like Torch. A name that is missing is Sido, by the way: He was a member of Aggro Berlin together with Bushido and Fler. They were the first to become hugely successful with German rap parents wouldn't want their children to listen to.— Precedingunsignedcomment added by94.191.152.24(talk)23:20, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

"Math rap" listed atRedirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirectMath rapand has thus listed itfor discussion.This discussion will occur atWikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 22 § Math rapuntil a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.signed,Rosguilltalk21:23, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

playboi Carti should be added to the 2014 -present "trap and SoundCloud era"

I can't dot it myself. but playboi Carti has is considered to be a very successful SoundCloud rapper. so he should be included in the list. most likely next to lil Uzi vert. his "self titled" mixtape came out April 14th, 2017 and "die lit" came out May 11th, 2018Ruach the creator(talk)14:07, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

"Rap and hiphop"listed atRedirects for discussion

The redirectRap and hiphophas been listed atredirects for discussionto determine whether its use and function meets theredirect guidelines.Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect atWikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 18 § Rap and hiphopuntil a consensus is reached.Shhhnotsoloud(talk)17:25, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 May 2023

If possible, please tweak "1997-2006: Bling era" to "1997-2007: Bling era",

"2006-2014: Blog era" to "2007-2012: Blog era",

and "2014-present: Trap and the rise of the SoundCloud rap scene" to "2014-present: Trap and rise of the SoundCloud and TikTok scenes"

These sources have the Blog era as spanning 2007-2012.[1][2]204.111.198.152(talk)21:23, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

References

  1. ^https://inreviewonline.com/2023/04/14/the-blog-era/
  2. ^https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/24148551-72f6-4895-a223-17e6a6424a4f
Not done for now:please establish aconsensusfor this alterationbeforeusing the{{Edit semi-protected}}template. This appears to be a major change requiring a fuller discussion. Try reaching out to the relevant WikiProjects (see the top of the talk page).voorts(talk/contributions)03:21, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Intellectual honesty

Of course "King Tim III (Personality Jock)"is a rap record. Its style and content are virtually identical to" Rapper's Delight. "173.88.246.138(talk)22:31, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Shouldn't the rap song "Enterprise," which was released on an album of the playRunaways(Original Broadway Cast Recording) on July 7, 1978, which was even earlier than "King Tim III (Personality Jock)," be mentioned in this article?173.88.246.138(talk)23:25, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based onWP:SECONDARYsources, none of which you have cited to support your case. Conjecture isn't appropriate here.Binksternet(talk)23:36, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Former Featured Article

This article is formerly featured. What can we do to make it featured again? 🤔🤔🤔MrBeastRapper(talk)17:05, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Kool Herc

There's a section in the article stating Kool Herc denies any direct connections between Jamaican musical traditions and early hip hop. However, in a 2020 interview, Herc stated Jamaicans needed to reclaim hip hop because Jamaicans were the ones who bought the style and techniques to America that later became hip hop.?

DJ Kool Herc Wants Jamaica to Reclaim Hip-Hop - The Source


Shouldn't Herc's view in that 2020 interview also be incorporated into the article?


Many thanksKoppite1(talk)16:52, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Just added it. Thanks23impartial(talk)14:10, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Racist content

Please remove the content in the article that talks about “the blacks” and “the whites”.2601:14D:5000:D150:B5D3:C6C3:5534:DC52(talk)01:50, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Misinformation

This statement "Since then, the breakout success of artists like Eminem and Nicki Minaj circa 2000 and 2010, respectively, has proven that Whites and women can rap" needs to be changed. Yes Eminem's success proved that Whites could rap but we knew long before Nicki Minaj that women could rap. She stands in the shoulders of women like Roxanne Roxanne, Queen Latifah, MC Lyte, Salt N Peppa, Yo-Yo, Foxy Brown, Left Eye and many more. It wasn't Nicki that showed us women could rap.Kelran79(talk)17:49, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. This was added recently, I've gone back to the older version before these personal opinions were inserted perWP:NOR.MrOllie(talk)18:08, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
@MrOllie:While doing that, you alsohappened to deletea lot of cited content, including the text merged into the article fromKool DJ Dee.--Florian Blaschke(talk)16:13, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2023

Hip-hop was created by Black-Americans alone. Carribean immigrants had nothing to do with the creation of Hip-hop. Carribean immigrants only appropriated the culture and sampled Black-American music/beats to do so. The art form of Rap and Hip-Hop is solely Black-American.Blakkbird(talk)23:16, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Not done:it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a"change X to Y" formatand provide areliable sourceif appropriate.JTP(talk•contribs)03:46, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2023 (2)

Dancehall and Reggae need to be removed from the stylistic origins list. Dancehall and Reggae were created by Jamaicans when they were attempting to appropriate The Blues, which was created by Black-Americans. On the Reggae and Dancehall Wikipedia pages, The Blues and Black-American need to be listed as being the inspiration. Jamaicans would not have a form of music if not for following in Black-Americans footsteps.Blakkbird(talk)23:22, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Not done:please providereliable sourcesthat support the change you want to be made.Rehsarb(talk)21:52, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Hip Hop 50

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between31 January 2024and4 May 2024.Further details are availableon the course page.Student editor(s):Egna389(article contribs).

— Assignment last updated byKING162(talk)16:31, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hip_hop_music/Archive_1&oldid=1254679606"