Talk:White Party (Sean Combs)

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Did you know nomination

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... thatSean Combspromised not to spill champagneon theDeclaration of Independence?

Source: [ "No one would ever expect a young black man to be coming to a party with the Declaration of Independence, but I got it, and it's coming with me... And I promise not to spill champagne on it"https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2004/07/07/p-diddy-does-politics/,https://archive.is/ivRpf,P. Diddy does politics, The Tampa Bay Times, 7 July 2004]

Reviewed:Template:Did you know nominations/Middlesex Regiment alien labour units

Created byNo Swan So Fine(talk). Number of QPQs required:1.Nominator has 122 past nominations.

No Swan So Fine(talk)21:17, 23 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

HelloNo Swan So Fine:article created within a week of nomination; QPQ checks out; hook is interesting; no copyvio detected; source checks out. My only question: would it be better to call Mr. Combs by his more well known name of P. Diddy or Diddy? I'm not sure if I'd click on the DYK if it said Sean Combs, I'd be much more likely to do so if it said Diddy, given the recent news and memes. My only thought. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk•Contribs}05:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a wrong encyclopedic entry. It should be renamed..

White parties have been going on in the elite circles well before Sean Combs decided to start throwing them. It seems inappropriate to give him credit for the entire concept which has dated back centuries!2603:8001:7106:C515:7811:9D52:2B0E:FC2C(talk)23:48, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 November 2024

It has been proposed in this section thatWhite Party (Sean Combs)berenamed and movedtoDiddy Parties.

Abotwill list this discussion on therequested movescurrent discussionssubpagewithin an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see theclosing instructions). Please base arguments onarticle title policy,and keep discussionsuccinctandcivil.

Please use{{subst:requested move}}.Donotuse{{requested move/dated}}directly.

Links:current log•target log•direct move

White Party (Sean Combs)→Diddy Parties– As stated in the article,Diddy Partiesis more commonly referred to with regards toWhite partiesbySean Combs(Diddy). Proposing move perWP:CONCISE,WP:COMMONNAME,WP:PRECISE,andWP:NATDIS.Other alternatives likeDiddy Party,White Party (Diddy),etc. are not off the table.𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 18:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)—Relisting.BD2412T18:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC)—Relisting.Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia22:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note:WikiProject Hip hop,WikiProject Sociology,WikiProject Culture,andWikiProject New York (state)have been notified of this discussion.𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝)21:14, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose.To my eye, "Diddy parties" is acolloquialism[] where far more encyclopedic alternatives are obvious,whichWP:NPOVNAMEadvises us to avoid. I also disagree with the claim that the proposed title is more precise— "White Party (Sean Combs)" unambiguously refers to a specific series of parties that Combs held, whereas "Diddy parties" could refer to any number of parties he might have thrown.ModernDayTrilobite(talk•contribs)22:00, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree that the name "Diddy parties" has a POV, and that it is not encyclopedic. Thanks!Feeglgeef(talk)16:59, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NPOVNAMEalso says that "Article titles and redirects should anticipate what readers will type as a first guess and balance that with what readers expect to be taken to." Which is the case for most people with P. Diddy's freak-offs.Feeglgeef(talk)17:01, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support-White Parties (Diddy)or something like thatDiddy's white partiessolely because I can't see how the present name could be theWP:COMMONNAME.I'm not opposed toDiddy partiesbut I think there are NPOV and BLP concerns there that should be more thoroughly discussed.estar8806(talk)★22:18, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:SENTENCECASEplease.—⁠ ⁠BarrelProof(talk)02:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CommentWhite partyandWhite partiescurrently redirect toCircuit party.Is that a justified primary topic? If not, we can consider a move to the undisambiguated title.162 etc.(talk)21:54, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is justified, they have a long history in African-American culture[1].We should really work to expand the circuit party article and reclaim the term.No Swan So Fine(talk)21:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PerCircuit party,these events were typically attended by white gay men. The article does not mention African-Americans, nor does it mention the attendees wearing white clothing. This citation fromThe Guardianappears to refer to a different type of white party.162 etc.(talk)21:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Guardianarticle specifically references "Black communities in the US" and Black culture.No Swan So Fine(talk)14:09, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's correct. I'm referring to theCircuit partyarticle, the current primary topic, which makes no mention of either.162 etc.(talk)17:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CommentWhite Party,a minor political party is Azerbaijan, is unlikely to be the primary topic for the capitalized title.162 etc.(talk)21:57, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
White Partywas formerly about circuit parties before it was redirected toCircuit party.No Swan So Fine(talk)21:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note theWP:DIFFCAPS.This article is unrelated to circuit parties.162 etc.(talk)21:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have history split the prior article about circuit parties toWhite Party (LGBT),moved the article on the Azerbaijan party toWhite Party (Azerbaijan)and created a disambiguation page atWhite partywithWhite Partyredirecting there. Despite all of that I don't have an opinion on this move request.* Pppery *_{it has begun...}20:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sean Combs' partiesSearching, I see they are referred to by various "names" and sometimes as justparty/partiesheld by Combs/Diddy. Our article for him is titled "Sean Combs".Whiteis just a theme, so no need to capwhite partyin prose orfreak offeither. While W|white partyis a redirect tocircuit party,that article does not mentionwhite party.When we work out what title to use here, we probably need to tidy up a couple of things.Cinderella157(talk)09:29, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This article refers to a specific set of parties, clearly defined and described in the references.No Swan So Fine(talk)21:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Opposeas per ModernDayTrilobite, this article refers to a specific series of parties that occurred from 1997 to 2009. When I created the article I considered other titles such asSean Comb's White Parties(sounds too commercial) andWhite Parties of Sean Combs(too specific?) The 'freak off' parties referred to in the indictments[2]are a different set of events.No Swan So Fine(talk)14:09, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment:Relisting for clearer consensus.BD2412 T 18:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Supportper COMMONNAME and NATURAL.--Ortizesp(talk)19:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have heard many people talk about Diddy Parties but no one about "White Parties"CavsFan45(talk)01:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article is about a specific series of parties, the term is well established in the references.No Swan So Fine(talk)14:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think he is talking aboutwp:PLURAL.Web-julio(talk)07:20, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sean Combs white partieswould probably work. This article is about a specific series of white-themed parties organized by Combs, not every Combs party. It is not really necessary to use a possessive here ( "Sean Combs's white parties" ), so be moreWP:CONCISE.And "White parties (Sean Combs)" is against our disambiguation practices (because these parties are not a type of "Sean Combs", and "Sean Combs" is not a narrowing characteristic of the events themselves). "Diddy parties" could also work if it's common enough in the source material, but we have to face the fact that this article title is necessary atWP:NDESCcase, where WP is using a descriptive lable, as these parties have no proper or "official" name, nor a clearly establishedWP:COMMONNAMEin independent sources. An argument could be made to be more concise yet by using a singular (regardless what clarifier of "party" is applied), but this seems like a naturally, intrinsically plural subject. That is, it's the series of parties as a "unit" of sorts, over a time span, that is the subject; the article isn't really about a type or sort of party,per se.
Use lower-case regardless:Zero of the appellations given to these parties constitute proper names, and none of them are consistently capitalized in sources. — SMcCandlish☏¢ 😼 01:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Commentby nom:A highlighted concern of this move request is that this articleonly focuses on a specific set of white parties by Combs.This begs the question of whether the scope of the article should be expanded to included “freak-off”parties referred to in the indictments as well. Of course, this topic may take place in a separate discussion, but I think this should be noted now.

𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝)03:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support"Diddy party", is theWP:COMMONNAME."Diddy parties" is also fine. I've heard "Diddy part(y/ies)" and "Freak offs" hundreds of times, but not once "White Party" before reading this article.Feeglgeef(talk)16:57, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]