User talk:Spekkios

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Happy editing!Love of Corey(talk)12:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

NZ place names

Three times now you have edit conflicted me on this page. Each time with something more succinct, convincing and on topic. But my comments have been more amusing and witty, to me anyway. You have probably saved me a great deal of regret. No reason for calling. But because of you I can sleep well tonight, knowing I have not inadvertently offended anyone.Dushan Jugum(talk)09:01, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you:) Hope you sleep well!

yesterday's moves

Hi, just to make you aware, I've receivedthis messageDr. Vogel(talk)21:39, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Relisting

Your relisting atthis move requestyou made on 5 Nov. was not processed by the bot until today. Just fyi, be sure to place the subst. Relisting templateon the same lineas the nom's sig. You had left a line break between the nom's sig and the Relisting template, which the RMCD bot could not process. Thank you very much for your edits and for your future attention to this!P.I. Ellsworth -ed.^{put'r there}13:35, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Just fyi, Spekkios, this was discussed over atUser talk:RMCD bot#Relistings are not being processed,and the bot operator decided to upgrade the RMCD bot to recognize relistings even if there is a line break between the OP's sig and the relisting template. Thought you should know. Best of Everything to You and Yours!P.I. Ellsworth -ed.^{put'r there}03:12, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

HeyPaine Ellsworth,thanks for this. Do appreciate the update! --Spekkios(talk)06:56, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

It's mypleasure!Paine12:00, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Snow close MR

Any further thoughts on whether it would be appropriate to take one or all of those to MR? I've been considering taking Lodz on its own, but I wanted to get your opinion before doing anything.BilledMammal(talk)08:42, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

@BilledMammalI'm going to leave it I think although I still think that it shouldn't have been closed early. Up to you if you want to take it further. --Spekkios(talk)02:02, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Strong interest in my posts/WP:HOUNDINGconcerns

Hey Spekkios, I've noticed you enjoy commenting on my posts to oppose them or reverting my edits without discussion. I want to remind you that we can discuss issues on the talk page rather than just reverting edits because you personally disagree with them. It comes off asWP:HOUNDINGandWP:STONEWALLINGwhen you tend to appear in many articles I edit. Your reasoning seems to be wildly inconsistent and mostly consists of opposition to anything I edit. I hope you can see this from my perspective and how it comes off incredibly disheartening and rude.Desertambition(talk)20:39, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

@Desertambition:Sorry but I really have no idea what you are talking about. What edits are you referring to? What edits have I reverted? --Spekkios(talk)22:30, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Merge close

I saw that you closed the merge request forAfrikanersandBoersbecause you personally disagreed with it. It's good practice to relist when there isn't a consensus, not close the discussion. Wikipedia is spreading misinformation if we pretend Afrikaners and Boers aren't the exact same people. Do you think we should have separate articles onPekingandBeijingtoo? You also deleted my edits on confederate flags because you didn't like it either, despite evidence showing otherwise.Desertambition(talk)23:50, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

@Desertambition:I closed the merge discussed because, as I noted in my edit summary, the discussion had stagnated after a week. Please seeWP:MERGECLOSE.As for the flag edits, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Ieditedthe flag of Tennessee to move a paragraph to a better location, Irevertedan edit on the flag of Alabama that was very poorly sourced, and Iremovedone word from the flag of Florida page. All of those edits had accompanying summaries that detailed why I made those edits, andtalkpagediscussionseems to support the reasons I gave. The edits were not made because I simply "didn't like" it. That isn't true. I would ask that in the future you stop accusing me of things I'm not doing, as this is the second time you are making things up, the first being yourclaimthat I have been hounding and stonewalling you, which is equally as untrue as your current accusation. --Spekkios(talk)00:05, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

It is hard to imagine why confederate symbolism wouldn't be notable enough for theMOS:LEAD.The Flag of Alabama was not poorly sourced, you just disagree with it. A written account from the state attorney's general and coverage from outlets like theWashington PostandDenver Postis not "poorly sourced". I am not making anything up, you constantly revert without discussion. Please stop and actually take the time to check the sources. You don't think it's strange you happen to show up on so many articles I edit?Desertambition(talk)00:11, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Desertambition:I don't "show up on so many articles" you edit. As for the flag of Alabama: as I've stated, one source is a Youtube video that doesn't cite it's source, another is a Washington post article that doesn't cite it's source, and another is a dead link. That is not sufficient for an encyclopedia. Please see those talk pages I linked you to, as there does not appear to be a consensus that any "confederate symbolism" for those flags is required in the lead, especially when there is very little evidence that those flags are confederate symbols. --Spekkios(talk)00:19, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

What you are claiming is not reality. I just looked at all three of those links and they worked for me. Also the "youtube video" is from theHuffington Postso it's hardly a random youtube video. Did you even try to put the links in theinternet archive?Desertambition(talk)00:21, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Desertambition::Yes, and as I said, one of the links cited on the WP article is dead, and the other doesn't mention the Alabama flag. Regardless of the video being from HP it still doesn't cite it's source, as I said before. You need to find consensus before adding information that has been reverted - I am reverting it to status quo until you do. --Spekkios(talk)00:28, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

This conversation is going nowhere because you are putting your own personal understandings over reliable, secondary sources. This is blatant willful ignorance. Those articles are not op-eds and you are being dishonest by saying otherwise. The state attorney general said it is based on the confederate flag. If those aren't reliable sources, nothing is. Please explain how thestate attorney general,Washington Post,Denver Post,andHuffington Postare not reliable sources. The articles do not need to have sources because the articles are the sources. This is how Wikipedia works. Would you raise the same objections for theFlag of Georgia?Desertambition(talk)00:37, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Desertambition:If these are reliable, secondary sources then please link to the primary sources they use. --Spekkios(talk)00:39, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

That's not how Wikipedia works.

Wikipedia articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources, i.e., a document or recording that relates or discusses information originally presented elsewhere.

You yourself deleted the primary source which is the written account of the state attorney general.I don't know why you're deleting the primary source and then asking me to give you a primary source.Desertambition(talk)00:45, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

The attorney general's opinion is already in the article. Have you read this article or read the edit summary? If you had, then you wouldn't be adding the same source again.Nemov(talk)01:21, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Desertambition:discusses information originally presented elsewhere.Were is the "elsewhere" for the HP video? There is none, because they don't cite anything. Just because it's HP or WP doesn't mean they can state whatever they like without sourcing it. As for that pdf it's dead but I found it on Webarchive and it claims thatRepresentative John W. A. Sanford, Jr., the sponsor of the bill served in the 60th Alabama Infantry Regiment in the Civil War and modeled the flag after the Regiment's battle flag.which is a claim I cannot seem to find anywhere else. --Spekkios(talk)00:59, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

So basically, I provided a primary source but you really don't like it so it doesn't count. The secondary sources I have provided are reliable and I gave you what you asked. The state attorney general said it was based on the confederate flag and so do many secondary sources. There's nothing I can give you that would convince you because your definition of reliable source is not Wikipedia's definition of a reliable source. Four different reliable sources at this point say the same thing and you are single-handedly throwinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sourcesto the wind because you don't agree with the conclusion. These secondary sources are reliable and consensus backs that up. They are not opinion pieces, despite what you keep repeating. TextbookWP:STONEWALLINGandWP:HOUNDING.Desertambition(talk)01:19, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Desertambition:No, that isn't what is happening at all. The information you are placing in the lead does not need to be there are the discussion on the symbolism is taking place in the "current flag" section. The information you are trying to add to the lead is:

• Based upon a 1987 opinion by the attorney-general, which is not sufficient to place in the lead, and which asNemovpoints out is already in the article anyway.
• Referencing a HP Youtube video which doesn't provide a source for their information. HP as you point out is a secondary source, but it still needs to actually reference something like all other secondary sources do, because otherwise how do we know they didn't just make it up.
• Referencing a WP article which references the same 1987 attorney-general opinion, and another article which doesn't mention the current state flag at all.
• Referencing a Denver Post page which references another page which mentions an old study conducted by an archivist.

That really isn't sufficient for an encyclopedia to state thatAlabama is one of only a few states that incorporate confederate symbolism in their state flag,and especially not in the lead. The possible confederate symbolism, including the opinion of the attorney-general, is discussed further down the page.

On a slightly different note, I will warn you one last time to not throw accusations of stonewalling or hounding towards me, or any other accusations like being ahistorical revisionist.If you have any issues with my conduct, take it toWP:ANI.If you want to discuss the flag of Alabama page, start a conversation there before editing the article to achieve consensus. If you accuse me of anything again, I'm going to go toWP:ANImyself. --Spekkios(talk)03:24, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

References

WP:ANINotice

There is currently a discussion atWikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidentsregarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Desertambition(talk)18:58, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

WP:ANINotice

There is currently a discussion atWikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidentsregarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Nemov(talk)00:47, 26 March 2022 (UTC)}}

Flag of Alabama

I don't think interacting with Desertambition is productive. It's clear the user doesn't listen. I'd recommend just ignoring the user. They're going to object to anything we say. No objective person could read that TALK page and come to any other conclusion other than the Desertambition is unreasonable. Thanks so much for your help researching the topic. It's been enlightening.Nemov(talk)00:44, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I'm going to move on I think. I think it's fairly clear that the flag has confederate connections but unlike Georgia or Mississippi there isn't anything concrete, and despite me repeating that Desertambition still thinks that I'm trying to present information that ties the flag to something else. Thank you for your help too! --Spekkios(talk)00:49, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

There's not enough to add to the lead, but that entire history section could use some work incorporating the new citations and making the links clearer, but editing it right now is impossible.Nemov(talk)01:02, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I absolutely agree. The section could use a bit of a rewrite. --Spekkios(talk)01:18, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

The best place to discuss changes to the article is on the article's talk page. Not a user talk page.Desertambition(talk)01:19, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Talk pages can be used for any interpersonal discussion, such as this. --Spekkios(talk)01:21, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Make as many unfounded personal attacks on me as you would like but discussion about theflag of Alabamashould take place on the flag of Alabama's talk page. Not as a personal agreement between two users. If you would like to make the edits you are discussing, I am not stopping you.Desertambition(talk)01:24, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

There aren't any unfounded attacks against you here, and again: my talk page can be used for any interpersonal discussion. Please seeWP:OWNTALK.Thank you. --Spekkios(talk)01:28, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Closing of Uitenhage Move Request

Hello Spekkios, I saw that you closed the move request for Uitenhage immediately after it was reopened by the closer. Would you consider reopening it? There were only two responses and I believe more input would be helpful in determining consensus. It strikes me as strange to close the request immediately after it was reopened.Desertambition(talk)19:39, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorry - I didn't realise that had occurred so I've reopened it. The previous closer should have relisted the RM so I've done that now. --Spekkios(talk)19:43, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Closing of Queenstown move request

Hello Spekkios, apologies for posting two messages so quickly but would you consider reopening theQueenstown, South Africamove request? I believe more input would be helpful and there were three users including myself that supported the move. I believe the close was premature.Desertambition(talk)19:42, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi, no worries. I'm not going to reopen that one sorry. There's been 6 replies with 4/6 of those supporting. --Spekkios(talk)19:46, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, I understand your position. If I decide to make a move review I will make sure to send you a link. Just thought I should let you know that I am considering that so you don't feel blindsided. Appreciate the discussion and thanks again for the responses.Desertambition(talk)19:49, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

That's fine, no worries. You're entitled to a move review if you wish. --Spekkios(talk)19:54, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Move review forQueenstown, South Africa

An editor has asked for aMove reviewofQueenstown, South Africa.Because you closed the move discussion for this page, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the move review.Desertambition(talk)20:34, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Pontus move closure

Your closure ofTalk:Kingdom of Pontus#Requested move 23 February 2022was based on nothing more than a head count, without seriously asssessing the strength of the arguments. None of those advocating for natural disambiguation showed that the current title was common enough as mandated byWP:NDAB.Please vacate your closure and let a more experienced editor or administrator do it.Avilich(talk)14:34, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Avilich, I'm sympathetic to your point of view in this RM, but I don't really see any policy- or guidelines-based reasons to give the opposers' arguments any less weight than the supporters'. I find it difficult to image than anybody could have closed this as anything other than "no consensus". Given that the issue isn't confined to the two articles in the RM, if you want to take this further, the best thing to do would be to start with a more general, informal, discussion on the talk page of a relevant Wikiproject. My impression is that RMs revolving around questions of natural disambiguation vs. common names tend be hit-and-miss; if you're interested in some background reading, then you can have a look at the comments inthis recent discussion.–Uanfala (talk)15:19, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

The guidelines straightforwardly say that titles should be consistent, concise and follow common usage, and none of the opposers gave any arguments showing that the NDAB does not violate these three principles in view of the counterarguments presented. Exceptions to guidelines can exist, but none of the opposers argued for one in this discussion, and their opinions were based on nothing more than whim.Avilich(talk)16:29, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi - I don't agree with your assessment of the opposition to the move as being based on "nothing but a whim"; editors opposing the move primarily citedWP:NATURALDISAMBIGUATIONas their reason for doing so. You may disagree with the argument and that's fine, but those editors prefer the current title to disambiguate the page rather than the proposed one. In comparison, most supporting cited something similar toWP:CONSISTENT.I didn't find any evidence that either argument was stronger than the other. Hence, I found that there was no prevaling argument. You're entitled to a move review if you wish, but I'm not going to reopen it. Thanks. --Spekkios(talk)21:12, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

The oppose argument is weaker because NDAB requires that the title be "commonly called in English reliable sources", but the oppose side found no evidence that the NDAB title was so. Those who bothered to do a search concluded the opposite and supported the move.Avilich(talk)22:23, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

As I explained, there were enough editors citing natural disambiguation that weren't swayed by that argument. Thus, I determined there was no consensus on the prevailing policy or gudelines, or the proper name for the article to use. I'm not going to reconsider the closure further; you are entitled to a move review if you wish. --Spekkios(talk)23:21, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Spekkios, in case you haven't noticed it, there's now a move review of the close atWikipedia:Move review/Log/2022 April#Talk:Kingdom of Pontus.Avilich,as the instructions at the top of the page say, when starting a MRV you're supposed to notify the closer. –Uanfala (talk)00:01, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! --Spekkios(talk)00:03, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Fixed point (mathematics)RM closure

About yourno consensusclosure of the RM atTalk:Fixed point (mathematics),I fail to see why you would close an RM while acknowledging that further discussion of the title is needed. Moreover, I don't see anyone in the discussion saying that the article should keep its current (ambiguous) title. If further discussion is needed to determine a better title choice, I think the RM discussion should simply continue, and I ask you to revert your closure. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof(talk)18:39, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi - this particular RM has been relisted once, and perWP:RMRELISTit is only occasionally that RM's are relisted more than once. While you are correct that the current title found little to no support, that is exactly why I closed it as "no consensus" perWP:THREEOUTCOMES,i.e: there is no consensus to keep the current title, but there is also no consensus on what the prefered title should be. Given that the RM has been relisted once, the last comment was almost two weeks ago, and there doesn't seem to be a consensus building in any direction, I'm not going to revert the closure. What I recomend is starting a conversation in the talk page to develop a consensus on what the title should be. Thanks. --Spekkios(talk)21:20, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

While I agree with your general assessment, I note that on WikipediaWP:There is no deadline.If there is a need for further discussion, I see no reason to declare the discussion period to be closed. I'm not aware of anything inWP:RMCIthat says a discussion should be closed simply because it has not yet converged after some period of time, especially in a case like this one where there appears to be a consensus that the current title is undesirable. Since you don't seem willing to reopen it, I may submit a new RM. I don't think a move review is desirable, since I don't think you misread the situation and since it may be better to focus on a new proposed alternative. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof(talk)21:29, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Submitting a new RM on an alternative is a good idea. --Spekkios(talk)21:46, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I have done that. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof(talk)21:50, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Shiori Kutsuna move

Regarding this:Talk:Shiori KutsunaIt says "moved" as the result, but the article is not moved yet. Is there a delay I didn't know about?Blocsrich(talk)23:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

@Blocsrich:Sort of: There is a page calledShioli Kutsunawith aneditthat isn't a page move. Because of that edit, a standard user is unable to move the page. If you try to it will come up with an error, and it requires an admin or a page mover to overwrite the error and move the page. I've listed it atrequested movesso those with the power to move it will know that an RM has closed and the page needs moving. It will probably be moved by someone in a couple of hours or less. --Spekkios(talk)00:00, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, I'll refer to this next time. Thank you for your work.Blocsrich(talk)01:35, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Not a problem. If you haven't seen it already, the page was moved. --Spekkios(talk)02:21, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

HC Visé Basse Meuse

Hi, please could you tell me why you relisted the Requested Move for this article when it had no further comments? No minimum participation is required as perWP:RMNOMINand it seemed very unnecessary. Thanks. -Kj cheetham(talk)17:33, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Because of the lack of comments I didn't think it was unreasonable to relist the RM. --Spekkios(talk)19:53, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Turkey

Hello.In July,you removed "Türkiye". And now suddenly "Republic of Türkiye" as well. What changed? It remained like this, and suddenly starting to edit. I would suggest to engage on talk page.Beshogur(talk)14:35, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Please seethisRfC. Thanks. --Spekkios(talk)18:44, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

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Move requests

Kia ora Spekkios - recently I've noticed you engage in several move requests immediately or soon after I did. Could you please explain the timing of these, as it's starting to feel personal based on my involvement, or at the very least as though you're following my history.Turnagra(talk)09:29, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't have any idea what you are talking about. I engage in move requests relevent to my interests. --Spekkios(talk)09:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

And it just so happens that, in four of the last five move requests I've taken part in, you've come in with the opposite of whatever view I take within 12 hours of me posting - even if the move has already been up for days without your involvement? I find that hard to believe.Turnagra(talk)09:39, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the issue is. Again, I take part in move requests relevent to my interests. --Spekkios(talk)09:41, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I find that argument hard to believe given the timing. I have no doubt you're interested in the move requests given your clear interest in removing indigenous names wherever possible, but the timing is still too much of a coincidence for me to overlook, leading me to have concerns aroundWP:HOUNDING.Turnagra(talk)17:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Firstly, I have never supported removing indigenous names from Wikipedia. I support the implementation of Wikipedia standards in relation to article names. Secondly, if you find my support for such standards irritates, annoys, or causes you distress, then I am sorry that you feel that way. That isn't any concern of mine, however. --Spekkios(talk)00:15, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Why

This is a reply to the edit summary on your most recent edit toTalk:East Timor{should be called “Talk:Timor-Leste” }.

Why can’t I apply!votes to other people’s comments or delete other people’s comments? That makes literally no sense, and you haven’t provided the article of theUnited States Constitution(where I live) in which it states I can’t do that. I will leave your revert alone, but I am going to have to add a citation needed tag until the issue is resolved.Judeinator9001(talk)04:08, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Please seeWP:TALKNOandWP:TALKO--Spekkios(talk)04:14, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Your closure of move request.

Thank you for your involvement in the article, however your recent closure of2023 Turkey-Syria Earthquakesname discussion should be market as no consensus as none was reached. Please change it.

Regards.Gazozlu(talk)00:56, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

The consensus was quite strong in favour of not moving the article, in particular due to the time between the previous move request and this one. Hence, I closed it as "not moved", instead of "no consensus", as there was a consensus to not move the article. --Spekkios(talk)01:09, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

There was noconsensusto move or not move the article. "not moved" is for if a consensus was reached to not move it, that's not the case.Gazozlu(talk)01:36, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

There was a consensus to not move the article, however. As I stated above and in the closing statement, the primary reason for not moving the article was due to the reopening of the same RM only a week after the older one was closed. --Spekkios(talk)01:39, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Other British monarch requested move discussions currently taking place

Since you recently participated in the Charles III requested move discussion, I thought you might like to know that there are two other discussions currently going on about other British monarch article titleshereandhere.Cheers.Rreagan007(talk)22:18, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

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