Talk:Discourse ethics

Too technical

I appreciate the effort that has gone into this very difficult subject. However, if there is any way to make at least each section introduction less technical/jargony, it would help immensely. For example, in the first sentence, what is meant by the phrases "normative or ethical truths" and "presuppositions of discourse?" I can guess, but if there's an expert who can clarify it would be great. I see that someone has tried this in the next paragraph ( "This means that it is an attempt to explain the universal and obligatory nature of morality by evoking the universal obligations of communicative rationality." ), which is great, except that the explanation sentence quoted here doesn't help me. And I have a PhD (admittedly it's in ocean sciences, not Kantian ethics). I don't expect any article that needs the phrase "normative validity" to be simple, but some clear explanation for the lay-reader is probably important.Jed(talk)21:01, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

blatant bias

looks like some asshole from the mises institute deleted the whole section that talked about other libertarians who presented the same argument before this guy hoppe did.

that section should be put back ASAP

Cite missing

The source "Madison (1986)" is missing from the bibliography. --zenohockey03:16, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

This has been added (more than once, even).24.141.65.7222:25, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Why "Socialist"?

I fail to see the need to classify the traditional discourse ethics of Habermas and Apel as socialist. They surely need to be distinguished from the authors and theories mentioned further down on the page, but it seems like an undue generalisation to use a political term to classify a theory which appears to have primarily moral implications. If there are good reasons that I fail to understand, maybe someone could give them here? Otherwise I suggest a more politically neutral headline (or perhaps no headline at all, since the "libertarian approaches" mentioned below seem to either build on the works of Habermas and Apel or be different theories altogether (and while perhaps related to discourse ethics not appropriately classified under that title)). --PModin19:14, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I think the main reason is to compare and contrast the different applications or uses of the theory--it is a bit interseting and striking that some reach libertarian conclusions (Hoppe) and others (such as Hoppe's teacher, Habermas) reach more socialistic or welfare-statist conclusions. Seems worth pointing out to me; it's not meant to be loaded or anything more than descriptive.NSKinsella (Stephan Kinsella)23:20, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I fail too to understand any socialist conclusion in Habermas.IsmaelPR15:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Democratic rather than "socialist"

Yes, I agree with PModin that "socialist" is not very precise. Although both Apel and Habermas belong to the left, it is unfair to brand them as some kind of socialist philosophers. From a European perspective they appear as progressive philosophers rather than socialists in the political term. "Collectivist" seems better than "socialistic", since the latter gives unnecessary political connotations. Americans might misunderstand this.—Precedingunsignedcomment added byTomtom77(talk•contribs)

Collectivist sounds ok with me.Intangible00:44, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Start new page for Argumentation Ethics?

Hans-Hermann Hoppe's work on what has come to be called his argumentation ethics approach to libertarian theory is a growing, large, and potentiallyverylarge topic.

Might we consider creating a new page something like "Argumentation ethics (libertarian)" or perhaps "Praxeological justification of libertarianism" and then linking to it fromDiscourse ethicsand labeling it as the "Main page"?

As a start, the current text of the libertarian version of the topic could simply be copied and pasted to the new page. After that, each page could evolve as appropriate. --RayBirks18:19, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

needs a section about criticisms of discourse ethics.

Can't imagine there are none. I am not familiar enough with the topic or I would take a shot.— Precedingunsignedcomment added by98.150.238.9(talk)23:08, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

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Section relies on "Harvard Law Review" in a way that seems to violate NPOV

The Harvard Law Review accurately examines public discourse and explains it in a manner that is appropriate and conceptually accurate. "Every man who publishes a book commits himself to the judgement of the public, and anyone may comment upon his performance.... [W]hatever their merits, others have a right to pass their judgement upon them-to censure them if they be censurable, and to turn them into ridicule if they be ridiculous".[4] For the public discourse ethic to be productive there must be accountability on the public stage as the Harvard Law Review calls into question.

This seems to violate NPOV with its language. Nothing wrong with citing a law journal in an article about discourse ethics, but this is excessive.

107.3.128.7(talk)00:24, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Freud?

Can anyone point to where Freud said "civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock" in the Interpretation of Dreams. It is correct that the source pointed to attributes this to Freud https://poseidon01.ssrn /delivery.php?ID=234103074096007112121115112030114117007063081059035051122026118022075109105002118081041018096039040035032004117026113098067077107034025084050094024067026118002027019023049012021085066012072127065002087079005079004083065088081091116071108127117019103092&EXT=pdf , but in Freud, S. (2010). The interpretation of dreams. (J. Strachey, Ed.). New York: Basic Books A Member of the Perseus Books Group. this does not occur. And what is really the point of this reference/apocrypha?

Ref: It was Sigmund Freud who once said, "civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock" and that statement is something that continues to be seen in society today.[3]— Precedingunsignedcomment added bySpiraler(talk•contribs)14:50, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Year

When did he releas this idea?Romina tafazoli(talk)00:01, 22 January 2018 (UTC)