Talk:Matrix holder

Where is the word "matrix holder" found in fiction? The footnotes erroneously suggest they lead to places in which this term is used. This article is otherwise superfluous. That the Matrix holder isn't part of the Matrix itself is fanon born from an obtuse reading of canon. --ItsWalky22:32, 23 November 2012 (EST)

"I had assumed it would be a simple matter of contacting you—theGuardianof theMatrix Holder—and bringing you here, to Cybertron. "Emirate Xaaron to Optimus Prime, (emphasis original)Bird of Prey!-Starfield22:37, 23 November 2012 (EST)

And why does this deserve its on article, when the Creation Matrix itself is incorporated into the Matrix of Leadership article, despite the two related concepts differing in many incompatible ways, and harmonized only in later material? "It's in a holder" somewhere on that page would cover everything here. --ItsWalky22:45, 23 November 2012 (EST)

I think a separate article clarifies things. On the Matrix (disambiguation) page there can now be a listing for "The Matrixshould not be confused with the Matrix holder. "The Matrix article already does say in two places that the Creation Matrix is encoded in the crystals of the physical object's core. It kind of gets lost in the whole" conceptual history "thing as if the Matrix in comic was patched up to make it match what every fan thinks of when they think of" the Matrix. "It wasn't exactly. What do you mean by" the Matrix holder isn't part of the Matrix itself is fanon "? -Starfield23:24, 23 November 2012 (EST)

(If I recall, DW MTMTE calls out the Creation Matrix as a distinct part of the Matrix of Leadership, yet it doesn't get its own article. It is retconned to have all been the same object.) --ItsWalky22:52, 23 November 2012 (EST)

I can't conjure a scenario in which anyone would reasonably want to read about this separately from the article on the Matrix itself. I likewise can't envision a situation in which another article would ever need to link to this one for further explanation. This fails the wiki test, I'd say.--Rosicrucian^Talk22:58, 23 November 2012 (EST)

I didn't know trying to gauge what people are likely to read or click to was part of the wiki test. I thought it was more like if there is an item that exists that has information about it, it can have an article. -Starfield23:24, 23 November 2012 (EST)

I'm more trying to steer this towards "How is this useful?" The question of "Is this a thing?" has been answered in that yes, it is (barely). It's just that we regularly have discussions as to whether an article is better standalone or merged with another article. Thus, I'm arguing against any real necessity for this having been split out in the first place. You did show that in Marvel continuity there is evidence for the holder being optional. This is mostly due to the fact that they had to somehow reconcile the thing lookingtotally differentfrom what was shown in the movie. However after that was sewn up you had a situation of them beingalwaysseen together in all Marvel comics going forward. Thus, you have a situation in whichnowhereis the "Matrix holder" seenwithout the Matrix inside it.Therefore, all fictional appearances of the "Matrix holder" overlap with fictional appearances of the Matrix.--Rosicrucian^Talk01:03, 24 November 2012 (EST)

I think it should have its own article if only because for sixty one (US) issues most of the characters knew one thing existed but not the other. If we were building the wiki at the same time the comic issues were coming out we would have an article for the Creation Matrix then, hello, how do we handle that box? Do those images count as the Matrix not being inside the holder? -Starfield09:59, 24 November 2012 (EST)

But you're making it something it's not. No character went "Wait, wait, the Matrix has a HOLDER?" That's where your "Optimus Prime hid this from the Autobots" bit falls apart. It's mostly just said that, y'know, they sent the Matrix into space with Optimus' body because they didn't know it would keep on keepin' on after he died.--Rosicrucian^Talk10:38, 24 November 2012 (EST)

Optimus referring to "the shell of the Matrix" inThe Rebirth, Part 2holds more weight to this article than what's already on this article, and eventhatwas just in reference to the Matrix itself while in its empty state. I concur with this article being unnecessary. --Sabrblade23:18, 23 November 2012 (EST)

Saw high talk page activity for article I didn't recognise. Looked at article. Thought "This was just created by Starfield, wasn't it?" Checked history. Look at that. -Chris McFeely05:04, 24 November 2012 (EST)

I figured I could either ask to make a Matrix holder page and have to describe what it would look like, or I could make a complete well crafted page that would hopefully speak for itself. I didn't change any links or anything yet. -Starfield09:59, 24 November 2012 (EST)