Goodreads Authors/Readersdiscussion

I confess myself a bit surprised--in a recent GR 'Authors/Readers Group' thread--that the word 'concomitant' seemed to be a relatively unknown and strange word to several thread participants; themselves I assume to be authors. I should have thought it was relatively common and well-known. Its one I use frequently; with no idea that anyone else hasn't encountered it before.

The thread started me thinking. I love cracking open a new novel and finding an author wielding a vocabulary which gives me pause; gives me some new terms-to-assimilate. It doesn't happen often anymore; (I was the proverbial 'kid who swallowed a thesaurus'). But I love it when it does. In fact its a pleasure I crave.

This year, I was lucky enough to stumble over three books which had this kind of vocabulary-boosting dimension.

Andersonville(great repository for antebellum words & phrases)
Black Mischief(Evelyn Waugh has a phenomenal command of the King's English)
Little DorritCharles Dickens.

But even though this is a welcome return to my old, incorrigible habit of vocab-hunting; I can say the last few years I have not found many books of this ilk. I don't know what I've been reading but it hasn't been by any authors of similar caliber to the above.

Thinking back--and this is what I want you to do in this thread if you respond--I would say that the primary books which formed my adult vocabulary are these, which I read in my late teens:
In Search of Lost TimeMarcel Proust displays an amazing dexterity with words.
The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
Edward Gibbon, colossal vocabulary; and never afraid to use it

Others which I think, had an indirect effect were writers from more archaic periods in western tongue*:Montaigne,Sir Thomas Browne.That is to say that you encounter (in their texts) 'older english' words like:physicke; grippe; catarrh; dropsy--which are interesting but you're never going to get a chance to use them in today's speech. A book like that which I'm reading now is Burton'sThe Anatomy of Melancholy.

Again: what were the books you feel presided over your adult writing/speaking skills? What recent books have you come across that possess this same quality(e.g., books that make you halt reading, dog-ear the page; sticky-note it because you discovered a word utterly new to you)?

*set aside all questions of translation & translators; in my remarks above

I wouldn't say that I have a vocabulary as broad as yours, but I don't remember reading a book in the last 10 years that really challenged my vocabulary skills. Which makes me wonder, what am I reading, and why? lol
I did really enjoy Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett, which had rich historial English, but I don't recall stopping on a word because I didn't know what it meant. Maybe there aren't that many books that challenge readers. At least from contemporary authors. But if you know of some, I'm game. Let's hear some recommendations.

I will admit, I was one of those authors. I think it depends on the line of work and life experiences really. Please don't take offense to this post as I am just replying because you make a good point. I come from a Southern state where I was the first out of four to get a Bachelors degree. I teach fourth graders so honestly an extensive vocabulary is truly not used on a regular basis. I enjoy coming across new words but if I have to stop and look up new words every so often I might stop reading the book. I say that because I am also a married mother of three and reading time is extremely rare versus others. I prefer a quick read that I can finish. For example the series Hunger Games comes to mind. I don't care what the reading level is, I just want a god quick read I couldn't put down. Believe it or not, even as a teacher, not many coworkers read for the same reason. There's just no time. If I ever find myself with the time to get into a long wordy, extensive vocabulary book then that would be great. But I just don't see that happening until kids are all grown up and off to college. I do envy those that have that luxury.
Books that I write, may have one or two challenging words in them, but I started writing with the average working mother with no time to read in mind. The ones that say they don't read because it's boring. So, I think not everyone reads or writes for the same reasons. I think it's great that you have always enjoyed enhancing your vocabulary. No offense and very good point.

Rolanda wrote: "I will admit, I was one of those authors. I think it depends on the line of work and life experiences really. Please don't take offense to this post as I am just replying because you make a good po..."


Thanks. Its perhaps hard to speak of vocabulary without inadvertently sounding 'exclusive'. But like I stated, I crave the books which throw words at me I've never seen before; its a kind of thrill; and a good reminder to me that I should not get too comfortable and lazy with my lexicon. One can always improve. I agree with you when you point out, that its sometimes a luxury depending on life-circumstances. I can indulge myself as a vocab-geek; but its not for everyone.

I do wonder lately though: how often new authors (the authors we all read) rely on less-familiar terms from older english. Are we all being encouraged to write only in a fashion colloquial to today; a faster-paced era when many people read for leisure rather than for improvement?

Ryder wrote: "Let's hear some recommendations...."

Well like I said I (often) routinely feel that I myself have a long way to go. For example, I have a buddy who not only matches me in written English but also speaks high-level Japanese. I can't even imagine that kind of acumen.

Recommendations: try some Evelyn Waugh. He's erudite (Oxford tradition and all that) and he's also one of Britain's best humorists. His works are invariably short--300 pages or so--but often rollicking, slapping-your-leg funny. I just finished 'Black Mischief' which was an absolute scream. But I also noticed his proficiency with words; and so it was a double treat.

Nonfiction: perhapsThe Long Week-end: A Social History of Great Britain, 1918-39by Robert Graves.

Here's an off-the-top-of-my-head list of some current favorite words. Are they wildly strange? Not used anymore?


desultory
interim
interval
affable
poignant
miffed
piqued
rash
churlish
truculent
umbrage
arduous
implacable
placate
tenuous
imperturbable
intervene
adroit
discern
replete
prosaic
pragmatic
reification
acquiesce
subsequently
diffident


Some toadie in school used to drive me batty with his (what I thought pompous) use of the word,'stochastic'.I still can't keep a grip on what it means, no matter how many times I re-learn it. But the above-list would seem to me, pretty common to any regular reader of English lit.

Great post! I know the word, but honestly I haven't had a means to use it and so many challenging words (or the ones I find challenging) escape my grasp if I don't use them often. Maybe that's just my age, LOL.

I love words and have many books I enjoy for increasing my vocabulary. But as an author, I am discouraged form using "erudite" words. I am told to "dumb things down" and "use ten cent words". Maybe that's what is wrong with some of the writing today? Many say it's because it takes readers out of the story if they come across a word they don't know. Or because it makes writers seem haughty if they use such words. I, for one, love coming across a word I don't know. I'll mark it to look up later. I love to be a lifelong learner.

It's great to hear from others, especially readers outside the professionalism of writing, to see how they really feel. Thanks for the post! I look forward to seeing the answers.

Feliks wrote: "Here's an off-the-top-of-my-head list of some current favorite words. Are they wildly strange? Not used anymore?


desultory
interim
interval
affable
poignant
miffed
piqued
rash
churlish
truculent
... "

I must confess to being one of the ones who had to look up 'concomitant'. I do enjoy learning new words, though in pieces of fiction I prefer not having to pause for that reason too often.

Growing up, my grandparents commonly had issues of Reader's Digest in the bathroom, and I always liked the section "Expand your word power" where they had a list of words that you guessed the meaning to in a multiple choice set-up. You could then turn the page to see the answers.

I'm actually rather proud to say that of the words you listed, about half I know, a quarter I'm familiar with even though I don't know the exact definition, and the last quarter are words I don't know. There's always more to learn.

Unfortunately, I believe there is a lot of "dumbing down" going on, in order to not ostracize the lowest common denomination. This is leading to a lot of books which use a simpler vocabulary, which leads to readers having smaller vocabularies. (While deserving of a mention, I'm not even going to get into the horrors of text and net-speak.) I wrote a story in high school for a friend of mine and it eventually made it's way around the classroom. I then had one guy come up to me confused and inquire as to what a globe was...

a globe? Fer cryin' out loud

I'm not sure I can explain the thrill of finding a word I'm unfamiliar with, in a book. Its rather a secret language; a 'hidden communication' going on under the surface between the author and the reader. When you find you can 'follow along' with an author-- no matter what curve balls he tosses at you--its a special pleasure. Knowing that you are getting his exact meaning 'on the first try'; that you are hanging with him no matter how tight the hairpin pirouettes he turns...

This was a great topic Feliks. My friend and I discussed this topic. Shaun, I was told the opposite, to enhance my vocabulary, which I am working on because I forget I'm not teaching fourth graders but writing for adults. She is a teacher as well and we both agreed, we want a quick fix. I definitely see your thrill of finding a new word. I could go on and on about public education and smaller vocabulary, but I won't. Love my job too much. Another topic for another day;)

Thx. Being 'startled' at words..you might say (and we would all do well to remember) was once the function of the world's former #1 literary medium: poetry.

p.s. Umberto Eco'sThe Name of the Roseis a book which (as I recall) will propel your vocabulary forward in leaps and bounds. Thats the kind of book I'm tawkin' bout! Another:V..Pynchon is another vocab-loving author.

I have to say that this post piqued my curiosity. Not being an adroit writer, I am having problems discerning which words I should use. This arduous task does not come easy for me, especially since I have been criticized for using the word missive once. The person did not understand it and argued that because she never heard it, it didn't exist. I was flabbergasted and miffed at her assumption that I had wrongly used it when all she had to do was open a dictionary.

Ok, seriously, many of the words mentioned in the list you provided derive from French rather than German, which is, as we all know, the base of the English language. Since every tip given to new writers tends to push towards the use of the German root for a clearer more concise text, it is not surprising that you don't see these too often. Do not take umbrage (Hey I found another place to use one of these words!) if I add that your list is composed of many adjectives and adverbs, which are also supposed to be avoided at all cost.

Feliks wrote: "I confess myself a bit surprised--in a recent GR 'Authors/Readers Group' thread--that the word 'concomitant' seemed to be a relatively unknown and strange word to several thread participants; thems..."

I, too, have been criticized for vocabulary that was beyond the reach of a reader (my favorite example was "this book has too many horse terms, which the author only uses to make her self look smart" -- in a book about an equestrienne). I think that if the word is the best fit for a situation, then it's the one to use. I will use "analogy" instead of "example" when speaking of something that is, well, analogous... as opposed to representative.

Like you, I've always been delighted to discover a word with which I was unfamiliar and going to look it up. Maybe reference library-type skills, such as how to use a dictionary and thesaurus, are no longer in vogue... and that is a pity. I don't say this to sound snotty; I have friends who are teachers, and several of them have told me they've had to tell their students that no, in fact, text-speak is not the appropriate language in which to write a term paper, and that Wikipedia is not a primary source.

Ginette wrote: "I have to say that this post piqued my curiosity. Not being an adroit writer, I am having problems discerning which words I should use. This arduous task does not come easy for me, especially since..."

Eh. Its just for convenience that I lumped them all together under the term, "English". Thats how we know them and encounter them, after all. Plus, I already 'set aside' all questions of etymology and translations in the footnote to my OP!

Good job with your paragraph though..

--but whats this about?
"if I add that your list is composed of many adjectives and adverbs, which are also supposed to be avoided at all cost"

Why would anyone avoid these or any other words? Especially ones as beautiful as these?

Feliks wrote: "Why would anyone avoid these or any other words? Especially ones as beautiful as these?"

Oh, I am not arguing with you about that. I think that these so-called tips are generalized because too many useless adverbs or adjectives are employed instead of the constructive ones.

As a library student, I am often building my vocabulary in my courses. Every profession has a technical vocabulary. When I find new words in my reading outside of the library program, they are usually technical terms in other fields that are unfamiliar to me, or they are words in foreign languages from books that deal with other cultures. I also enjoy finding words that are new to me because each one unlocks a concept and provides me with a new way of looking at the world.

There's nothing sexier than library science. I applaud you!

On the other hand...I agree with all the above comments....I have a large vocabulary and I love learning something new. But I have never forgotten reading one of Stephen R Donaldson 's Lord Foul' s Bane novels...the middle book of the second series.
I wrote them down: there were like eighteen words I did not know. Several I had to look up in the OED....because they were NOT in the Websters on my desk. (This while working at the newspaper) Luckily I had access to the OED but all I could think of is all the people who didn't....and this was before the Internet.
.
My point is you can go a leeeetle too far with arcane obtuse language! It becomes a stumbling block and halts the smooth flow of your story. One of the words I remember was "levin" an archaic form of lightning....and by the context I was even confused because hey, we're dealing with a made up world!

Yes, of course. Fully agree. But, I started this thread under the assumption that it was to be classical authors under scrutiny. Not the reckless, mass-market, 'popular' author.

With classical authors...it was the language du jour...and I' d happily go look it up.For me, Henry James comes to mind.

Feliks wrote: "Here's an off-the-top-of-my-head list of some current favorite words. Are they wildly strange? Not used anymore?


desultory
interim
interval
affable
poignant
miffed
piqued
rash
churlish
truculent
... "


The only word on this list I wasn't familiar with was "reification" - but I like it, very useful.

I think the book that vexed my lexicon most was Worm Ouroboros by E.R. Eddison:



I loved the book, but it was written in Jacobian English and many of the words frankly were not even in my dictionary. I actually got a kick out of that though. Brilliant writing.

I think my wide vocabulary comes from reading lots of fantasy (where authors tend to wax a bit more poetical in their descriptions) and Shakespeare.:) Love Shakespeare. Also, I like a lot of "older" authors, who used bigger vocabularies, even though they wrote "for kids" - Albert Payson Terhune, for one. Also authors like George MacDonald, C.S. Lewis, and J.R.R. Tolkien.

Here is a direct quote from a review on Amazon for The Welsh Healer:

"... Also she used a Thesaurus too much - either that or she chose words that made the reading a bit slower in that the reader needed to stop and analyze why she would choose an unusual word when a plain one would do. The plot, however, kept me reading to the very end. A charming story, if you take the time to read it."

While contemplating my word choice, I did not take into consideration that "... a plain one would do..." because I don't want my books to be plain. Suffice it to say that I don't plan to change my writing style anytime soon.

Ginger wrote: "Here is a direct quote from a review on Amazon for The Welsh Healer:

"... Also she used a Thesaurus too much - either that or she chose words that made the reading a bit slower in that the reade..."

Sometimes plain words are best. But in most cases, I heartily concur with you - I want my books to stretch my readers' vocabularies (particularly as I write for young adults and was a former English teacher... I just can't move away from the idea that young readers ought to have their minds expanded a bit, even when reading for pleasure):)

I write historical fiction, so... And I never just throw a word in there for the sake of doing so. I am very precise and the vocabulary I choose carries exactly the meaning I wish to convey. In addition, someone with half a brain but unfamiliar with said word should be able to gather the defiinition through context. Whatever.

And I agree with you, Jenelle, about young people having their minds expanded through reading. It was a requirement for my boys while they were growing up to read for an hour before starting the rest of their day. One of my proudest moments came when my youngest was in the 8th grade and the teacher asked him to state one word to describe himself. His word? Misanthropic. I was proud for having raised such a child, both for having the vocabulary to express himself precisely AND for not relying on, or getting sucked into, the ignorance that abounds in the typical teenage world!

No need for backlash. Its not being phony/false, nor is it either slacking/climbing to use (1) the vocabulary you're used to; (2) the vocabulary which fits the audience you're writing for; or (3) the vocabulary you might admire and wish to strive for. Any or all of these --as befits the occasion called for--is acceptable.

Feliks wrote: "No need for backlash. Its not being phony/false, nor is it either slacking/climbing to use (1) the vocabulary you're used to; (2) the vocabulary which fits the audience you're writing for; or (3) t..."

You misunderstand my twisted sense of humor, Feliks. I have come to understand that my target readers (audience) completely get it, and I am good with my niche. It is ALL about finding that audience. Now if I can just round up a bunch of misanthropes with a decent vocabulary who are also interested in sweeping historical love stories with no sex... oh, and win the lottery... I'll be set!

Fair enough!

Ginger wrote: "And I agree with you, Jenelle, about young people having their minds expanded through reading. It was a requirement for my boys while they were growing up to read for an hour before starting the re..."

That is awesome:)

It WAS awesome, Jenelle. At that moment, I knew the legacy I was leaving to the world would be safe!

Feliks wrote: "No need for backlash."

And Feliks, just for the record, you are not the only one to ever misinterpret my playfulness for backlash. I find it a much more enjoyable way to go about voicing my opinion than my husband's profanity-laced rants. (Although concise and expressive, they can sometimes be construed as lacking imagination.) Ironically, most of my family sees me as the Mary Poppins of the bunch! Go figure.

None of you should take ANYTHING I say seriously! I will now go back to my cave. Lovely meeting you all! Have a terrific day!:D

I read the dictionary. Why depend on an author to teach me the English language. On a side note...I did this before it was the cool quirky thing to do. I am too old for that bull.

I'd have to say reading omnivorously expanded my vocabulary.
My mother was a journalist, my oldest brother had a degree in English and I worked at the LA Times for almost nineteen years...all theses things added to an expanded vocabulary

I was given advice by an other author on this site about using too many 'difficult' words. He suggested the most popular authors were the one's who used grade 4 level language and suggested I consider 'dumbing down' my vocabulary. Following that I received a review where the reviewers complaint was "It seemed like the author used a thesaurus a lot, I know I had to."
When I talk to people about my writing I do not apologize for using an elevated vocabulary. I tell them there are correct words then there are the right words. When I find the right word it's like a sweet taste in my mouth. I will, literally (and not in the figurative way), get a shiver.
@Feliks seven of the words on your list were in my novel, Fissures. And each one tasted sweet.