Wikidata:Property proposal/Landshuth ID
Landshuth ID
[edit]Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work
| Description | Identifier for a gravestone in the Jewish cemetery in the Große Hamburger Straße in Berlin after Eliezer Landshuth |
|---|---|
| Data type | External identifier |
| Example 1 | Samuel Schulhoff (Q94787306) → 107 (reference URL [1]) |
| Example 2 | Jost Liebmann (Q85358782) → 119 (reference URL [2]) |
| Example 3 | Esther Liebmann (Q1370117) → 120 (reference URL [3]) |
| Number of IDs in source | 2800 |
Motivation
[edit]The number assigned by Leser Landshuth (Q1329275) to the gravestones in the Jüdischer Friedhof Berlin-Mitte (Q878485) (Jewish Cemetery on Große Hamburger Straße in Berlin) is found both in the Landshuth estate in the Leo Baeck Institute New York (Q15242248) and in Landshuth's cemetery documentation in the Gesamtarchiv der deutschen Juden (Q67918628) in the Central Archives for the History of the Jewish People (Q2893584) in Jerusalem and in the New Synagogue Berlin - Jewish Center (Q67921113) in Berlin. The collection of photos of the cemetery by Martin Koppenheim (Q89351320) in the Central Archives for the History of the Jewish People (Q2893584), also provides the respective gravestones with the Landshuth ID. Jacob Jacobson (Q1677526)'s book on Jewish weddings in Berlin (Jüdische Trauungen in Berlin 1759-1813 : mit Ergänzungen für die Jahre 1723 bis 1759 (Q87647586)) also refers to this ID. Various sources could be brought together via this Landshuth ID. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Von Uebigau (talk • contribs) at 11:44, January 22, 2021 (UTC).
Discussion
[edit]
Comment @Von Uebigau: It's not clear what value you intend - your examples should display the number you want as value. It looks like you are linking to a reference work that describes these entries? So that would be a reference source, but I don't see exactly what the values would be. I assume there's no formatter URL that links to a page using this number? Do you know how many of these people actually have Wikidata ID's? If it is only 100 or less it might be best to just use a property like described at URL (P973) to link to these source documents. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:35, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
@ArthurPSmith: I had taken this ID as a model: Sprockhoff-ID (P5918). Because various sources use the ID, which cannot always be linked to, described at URL (P973) is not the perfect solution. Moreover, I am not sure whether the link to the InternetArchive remains stable. One could then, for example, link generally with described at URL (P973) to the estate in the Leo Baeck Institute: https://archives.cjh.org/repositories/5/archival_objects/331238 and identify the exact location through the Landshuth ID. A digitisation project is currently planned in which the archival records from the Central Archives for the History of the Jewish People (Q2893584) (CAHJP) will be put online. The Landshuth and Koppenheim estates will be digitised there. In perspective, this could become 2800 personal records in Wikidata.
Support, an important property for Jews.--Arbnos (talk) 17:38, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
Oppose- @ArthurPSmith:: I fixed the link in the third example. But in the first example you can see the real problem. The link goes to a page on which two inscriptions are to be seen, the numbers 107 and 108. So that one can quote clearly, the Landshuth-ID should be introduced. It is the same with links into Jacob Jacobson's book (Jüdische Trauungen in Berlin 1759-1813 : mit Ergänzungen für die Jahre 1723 bis 1759 (Q87647586)), there are countless Landshuth IDs on each page. To keep them apart, again the Landhuth-ID would help to identify them unambiguously. That's why I had chosen the Sprockhoff-ID (P5918) as a model: As here, only natural numbers, up to 1-2880 should be specified for the Landshuth ID, no links into a database. (I'm trying to create a property for the first time and I'm a bit unsure, I'd appreciate some help).--Von Uebigau (talk) 12:30 4 June 2021
- @Von Uebigau: So I still don't understand what you are proposing as the actual ID here. See Wikidata:Property proposal/Sprockhoff-Nummer for the original proposal on your model, and note that each of the examples shows a numeric value for the ID. What is the numeric or other value you want for this id for each example? ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:02, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
- @ArthurPSmith: In the given examples the corresponding ID is shown in each case, in example 1 it is the ID 107. However, this ID 107 is also given in Jacobson's book Jüdische Trauungen in Berlin 1759-1813 : mit Ergänzungen für die Jahre 1723 bis 1759 (Q87647586), here as L 107, to be found in the book on page 65 and others. In the future, this number will also be displayed in other databases. In short: The Landshuth ID facilitates the exact identification of gravestones and thus of a certain person. Von Uebigau (talk) 12:01 9 June 2021
- @Von Uebigau: Ok, I have inserted the numbers from the reference links you supplied, do these look correct to you then? And these numbers uniquely identify a gravestone, but there could be several different people listed on the gravestone, is that correct? I think we need somebody who can read handwritten Hebrew (if that is the language used here?) to verify what these entries contain. ArthurPSmith (talk) 13:30, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- @ArthurPSmith: References resolve correctly. I have looked at all entries, 2800, and found no double occupancy of grave sites, so it should not be a problem. What you see is Hebrew handwriting, which you (I) can read very well. Von Uebigau (talk) 16:47 11 July 2021
- Ok, my concerns seem to be addressed here, I've removed my "oppose" and marked this as "ready". ArthurPSmith (talk) 13:28, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
- @ArthurPSmith: References resolve correctly. I have looked at all entries, 2800, and found no double occupancy of grave sites, so it should not be a problem. What you see is Hebrew handwriting, which you (I) can read very well. Von Uebigau (talk) 16:47 11 July 2021
- @Von Uebigau: Ok, I have inserted the numbers from the reference links you supplied, do these look correct to you then? And these numbers uniquely identify a gravestone, but there could be several different people listed on the gravestone, is that correct? I think we need somebody who can read handwritten Hebrew (if that is the language used here?) to verify what these entries contain. ArthurPSmith (talk) 13:30, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- @ArthurPSmith: In the given examples the corresponding ID is shown in each case, in example 1 it is the ID 107. However, this ID 107 is also given in Jacobson's book Jüdische Trauungen in Berlin 1759-1813 : mit Ergänzungen für die Jahre 1723 bis 1759 (Q87647586), here as L 107, to be found in the book on page 65 and others. In the future, this number will also be displayed in other databases. In short: The Landshuth ID facilitates the exact identification of gravestones and thus of a certain person. Von Uebigau (talk) 12:01 9 June 2021
- @Von Uebigau: So I still don't understand what you are proposing as the actual ID here. See Wikidata:Property proposal/Sprockhoff-Nummer for the original proposal on your model, and note that each of the examples shows a numeric value for the ID. What is the numeric or other value you want for this id for each example? ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:02, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
- @ArthurPSmith:: I fixed the link in the third example. But in the first example you can see the real problem. The link goes to a page on which two inscriptions are to be seen, the numbers 107 and 108. So that one can quote clearly, the Landshuth-ID should be introduced. It is the same with links into Jacob Jacobson's book (Jüdische Trauungen in Berlin 1759-1813 : mit Ergänzungen für die Jahre 1723 bis 1759 (Q87647586)), there are countless Landshuth IDs on each page. To keep them apart, again the Landhuth-ID would help to identify them unambiguously. That's why I had chosen the Sprockhoff-ID (P5918) as a model: As here, only natural numbers, up to 1-2880 should be specified for the Landshuth ID, no links into a database. (I'm trying to create a property for the first time and I'm a bit unsure, I'd appreciate some help).--Von Uebigau (talk) 12:30 4 June 2021
- @Von Uebigau, ArthurPSmith, Arbnos:
Done as Landshuth ID (P9739). UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 20:03, 15 July 2021 (UTC)